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GW
Advanced Tutor

Bug report

I exclusively use this vendor for all of our store bought pet food for many years.

www.onlynaturalpet.com

 

I must keep a credit card on file with them for some auto-delivery payments but I use virtual account numbers that are time and dollar limited. Consequently, I must access their credit card system regularly to add a new virtual account number.

 

For the past three months I've been unable to do this with my Hughes connection using any computer with any of the 3 or 4 browsers installed on each computer. Rebooting the modem doesn't help nor does disabling Web Acceleration.

 

Here's what happens. When I access the form, within one second it crashes from the useful form seen here

 

onp cc vz.JPG

 

to this useless form with no controls and missing many fields.

 

onp cc screen.JPG

 

Fortunately I discovered a few days ago I have a workaround. Another internet provider. When I use my Vz internet to connect a computer to the store, it's no problem but this is an issue that needs to be repaired. I may not always have an alternate internet provider but my dogs and cats will always need to eat.

 

38 REPLIES 38
C0RR0SIVE
Associate Professor

Not entirely sure this is a Hughesnet issue per say...  It took ages for me to connect to their payment processor company which might be the ones responsible for the online form as well.  I then almost immediately got a "Token Invalid" error when the form failed to load, along with a few other random errors that are outside of Hughesnet's control.  Such as the following...

GWBug.PNG

GW
Advanced Tutor

Thanks for checking. I've never seen any 504 error screens or any error screens while using this store. I'm not sure how or why you would be trying to connect to their payment processing company. I don't recall seeing any outside entitiies unless I choose to pay with paypal which takes to paypal to complete the transaction.

 

The fact that the credit card data entry screen instantly flashes to a useless truncated form every time after months of attempts using Hughes while functioning perfectly well every time while using Verizon internet speaks very strongly for the problem being a Hughes specific problem.

C0RR0SIVE
Associate Professor

The reason I tried to connect to their payment processor is because the website is telling the browser to pull data from there when you attempt to load the credit card form.

 

Also, that 504 error I got, was being generated by CloudFront, which provides CDN services for the website you are using, that is well outside of Hughesnet's territory.

Currently I don't get that error, however, I still get "Invalid Token" when trying to load the form, whether that's because of Hughesnet, or them is up in the air IMO.  I will have to try later when I am in town.

GW
Advanced Tutor

All good info. I forgot you look at internet things in much greater depth and detail than average people. Maybe you're experiencing a different accounting of the same basic issue with the token error. I've never seen that. Only the truncated form using various combinations of FF, Chrome, IE, Edge and Tor on three different computers.

 

It will be interesting to see what you find when you try this with a provider who isn't Hughes.

 

I think I'll send the info over to my wife at her office and see what she gets when trying to add a credit card.

GW
Advanced Tutor

I just tried the exact same thing on my phone itself. I used FF and logged in to my account while connected through Hughes by wifi and then, connected by the Vz internet. The results were identical. Normal form when logging in with Vz internet and the useless truncated form when logging in through Hughes.

 

My wife tried this from her work internet. It worked perfectly for her. I think her office internet is a massive C-spire corporate fiber system.

 

Regardless, everything works properly if not run through Hughes and nothing works properly if run through Hughes. Smells like another Hughes glitch to me.

 

@Amanda

@GW

It's possible that one of the elements required for that part of their site has a corrupted DNS link in your modem and is not being downloaded properly? If so, try reboot the modem, thus clearing the DNS. Something that simple might actually fix it.


* Disclaimer: I am a HughesNet customer and not a HughesNet employee. All of my comments are my own and do not necessarily represent HughesNet in any way.
GW
Advanced Tutor

As stated in the initial post, reboot and/or toggling web accel has no effect. Complete power off resets of long duration have also not cured a thing.

 

This particular issue is unlike my other ongoing issue with email that is always immediately cured by a modem reboot. 

 

That certainly doesn't mean the two issues are unrelated. Both issues have have been ongoing on for months and both began in March. This one is simply incurable by reboot.

 

 

Good morning GW,

 

Thanks for posting the details of what's going on, I haven't been able to reproduce what you're seeing on my end, however. I did make an adjustment to your site, so please let me know if the issue persists.

 

  Your cooperation, patience, and understanding are much appreciated.

 

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GW
Advanced Tutor

Hi Liz. No changes anywhere. Did you find idiosyncrasies in my modem?

 

Thus far I see absolutely consistent results using one W7, two W10, one Vista, four different android systems and an iPhone. All the above listed browsers plus more. None of the browsers have add-ons or extensions except FF, Tor and Chrome on the Win computers. I've disabled all extensions in those browsers on two of the computers for testing. In two cases, the browsers were virgin M$ Edge and never previously used. It also makes no difference connecting by ethernet or wifi.

 

Conversely, all of my computers and devices (6) thgat I can use to connect to the internet through the Verizon internet work flawlessly to load this CC screen. I also checked it out on a friend computer at a company in Pensacola this morning and her internet worked just fine to pull up the full screen. So basically, I have no way to defeat the error going through Hughes and no way to reproduce the error using three different internet systems that are not Hughes.

 

Liz, were you able to open an account and access the full add a credit card screen using Hughes? If so, about the only thing left is some goofball glitch my modem.

 

@MarkJFine mentioned modem DNS and TLS/SSL errors in my two "issue" threads. All that's above my pay grade and doesn't compute. All I know is both of these issues have been ongoing for months and began around the same time. One is always instantly cured with a modem reboot and the other is seemingly incurable.

 

 

Hi GW,

 

Thanks for the additional details. Nothing in the SCC jumped out at me, but I did a lot of testing today and will definitely escalate to engineering for their input. I'm failing to get to the Manage Credit Cards page now. However, I did notice that even on my Android on a cellular connection, I was getting the same error. I'll bug Amanda to see if she gets the same thing on her cell connection. 

 

I'll let you know once we have any updates or additional questions.

 

  Your cooperation, patience, and understanding are much appreciated.

 

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Hi GW,

 

Still testing this out... I'm starting to think that the website in general has issues. Amanda also was not able to get to the Manage Credit Cards page on her cellphone (Verizon), and now's she's also getting the 504 error just by trying the main website. I'm waiting on a 3rd cell connection test to see if it also fails. So far, I've never been able to get to that page today in spite of trying all the usual troubleshooting steps. I guess I was lucky yesterday when I did get to the add credit card form. 

 

Are you seeing the same today on your non-HN connections? Have you inquired with natural pet's support about this? 

 

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GW
Advanced Tutor

Hi Liz,

 

I just checked and I'm able to get manage credit cards section and the add a card popup just fine. I used my phone browser and then used a real computer tethered to the verizon phone internet.

 

I tried it with the Hughes and got the same useless add a card screen.

 

Have a good weekend!

GW
Advanced Tutor

I forgot to answer your question Liz. Yes I asked them about the truncated add a card screen. They had no info about such a problem. I sent them a screen cap and they were clueless. Never seen anything like it before. I didn't tell them my ISP was Hughes.

 

Here's what it looks like on my phone using the 4G LTE Vz. I hit this everytime no matter if it's my phone or a tethered computer.

 


phone screen.jpg

How odd... I'm not even getting to the non-functional card screen. I only ever get these errors on computer and mobile, respectively:

 

 

 

I'm puzzled... I'm going to test this out on my home PC on Verizon, and Amanda said she'll try on her Comcast connection.

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GW
Advanced Tutor

That is bizarre. Over all the years of doing business with this company, the only error or failure I ever remember is the truncated add a card screen that began a few months ago.

Not sure if it helps, but I just tried a traceroute to 52.84.237.155 (Amazon AWS Cloudfront), and it started going wonky with some long delays as soon as it hit Level3 right out of GWID 068.

I wouldn't be shocked if Level3 had some really bad routing tables if that's where these other GWs are going through.


* Disclaimer: I am a HughesNet customer and not a HughesNet employee. All of my comments are my own and do not necessarily represent HughesNet in any way.
GW
Advanced Tutor

@MarkJFine

Thank you. This doesn't give me any answers but it does give me questions.

 

Are the GWID things you speak of going wonky the events 12, 13 and 14 as shown on this traceroute?

Is this what is giving people the 504 and timeout errors when accessing this store?

After running many traceroute operations, I see I always experience the same request time outs so I can't understand why these timeouts mean anything since I have no problem loading the site or any page within it other than the add credit card form.

Why wouldn't I be seeing 504 errors?

tracert Hughes.JPG

Here's the traceroute run through the Verizon connection.

Why is this so much different than the Hughes traceroute?

Does this influence on my abiility to faultlessly load the add a credit card form while I can never see the full form when accessing through Hughes?

 

vz tracert.JPG

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1. "Are the GWID things you speak of going wonky the events"
No. Our's were experiencing large delays in hop 5, which is outbound from the gateway @Liz and I are on (assumably, since I think Gaithersburg is also on Beam 68 on the San Diego Gateway). Checking again today, that delay is no longer there, and looks similar to yours.

Untitled4.jpg

That said, whatever beam/gateway you are going thru is hitting the same Level3 path I tested yesterday, so clearly the problem is intermittent somewhere in the path:
hop 1: router

hop 2: modem

hop 3-5: Hughes Gateway

hop 6-8: Level3
hop 9-11: Amazon
----

hop 15: Amazon Cloudfront

 

2. "Is this what is giving people the 504 and timeout errors"
Not necessarily. Some content delivery networks such as Amazon's put some blocks in place in some areas as a security measure from hackers probing the site. As you can see Amazon's isn't that efficient and ultimately gets through, otherwise it would have just died there in an endless loop.

3. "After running many traceroute operations..."
Again, this wouldn't necessarily cause 504s. Seeing long delays much earlier in the path, as stated in #1 would definitely cause them. For example, yesterday, there were delays as long as 2000ms in hop 6 that could cause a timeout.

 

4. "Why is this so much different than the Hughes traceroute"
Verizon likely used locally cached information to get to the target. That's why it seemingly went directly flawlessly there in one hop (and in 42ms or less). The second picture doesn't tell me who they originally used upstream to get to Amazon so it's hard to tell how it was originally accomplished.

 

Summary:

I should add right here that I'm not a real fan of Level3 and would tend to be suspicious of them as an upstream provider ahead of Hughes every time. I would not doubt that a lot of slowness seen by HughesNet customers was actually an upstream Level3 problem.

 

I often see really bad routing tables from them, and occasional long delays like yesterday, meaning their equipment may be either set incorrectly (MTUs?) or incapable of handling the load or environment. For example, I see regularly see delays and erratic behavior between Level3 and Microsoft's servers. I also see a ton of spam trace back to their internal servers acting as spam relays, which likely were hacked at one point. Bottom line, it seems as if Level3 don't do a lot of regular maintaining and security checks of their own system, nor do they make regular adjustments to ensure the most efficient path wrt to the load or bad hops (down or overloaded servers that should be avoided). I especially have no respect for the spam part, which to me is unconscionable for an upstream provider.


* Disclaimer: I am a HughesNet customer and not a HughesNet employee. All of my comments are my own and do not necessarily represent HughesNet in any way.

Good morning folks,

 

Thanks for your input, Mark. I didn't think to run a traceroute when I tested the site at home. I also tested at another person's house in Virginia, although we both have Verizon. I got the same error messages I've been getting while testing here. I'm going to escalate to our engineers to see if they can at least reach out to Level 3 if they also agree that this is an upstream issue.

 

 

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Good morning GW, 

 

Engineering got back to me and also confirmed they were able to reproduce these errors, so they also believe this is something the natural pet site admins need to address. Feel free to use the screenshots from this thread to use in your escalations to them. I'll also submit a ticket with my screenshots--having multiple people report the same thing might gain better traction.

 

If you have a tech or billing question and need help, please start a new thread in the appropriate board. Unsolicited Private Messages may not get replies.

Slow performance? Click me!