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Data is leaving! Trying to catch culprit!

Moderator
Moderator

Re: Data is leaving! Trying to catch culprit!

Hi Rich,

Our maintenance windows are also generally early Sunday mornings, but that's just for billing. I'm currently unaware of any recent and major network changes.

-Liz

Thanks,
Liz

Did my post answer your question? Accept as Solution to help others find it faster.--------------------------------->

Honorary Alumnus

Re: Data is leaving! Trying to catch culprit!

Hi Rich,


"I don't know where the gateway server for HN on the west cost is, if there is one,"

For Echostar17 there are about 17 Gateways in total plus 2 NOC's

For a greater understanding of beam/gateway architecture and finding the location of the one that handles your traffic see the beginning and very end of my topic here:

https://community.myhughesnet.com/hughesnet/topics/beams-gateways-and-loading-overloading


 "but is it possible a  maintenance window is involved?"

Its not impossible it is however unlikely.

Engineering will at times run some remote speed tests on a users system that has an elevated compliant. That will use some data  however they compensate the user by adding in Tokens.

The time frame you mentioned is also a favorite of many wireless devices (tablets, iphone, ipad ...). to awake from hibernation (as compared to a true "power off" state)  and check for updates and there has been some .. and will be more according to the latest US CERT.gov report:

https://www.us-cert.gov/ncas/bulletins/SB16-242


In fact there is even a Dlink 822 family firmware vulnerability listed that may lead to either "issues" or Dlink routers "calling home" and getting firmware updates:


The fact is, there is always a bunch of background process activity going on that many users simply are unaware of.

By the way, you can subscribe to the uscert.gov security bulletins.


Highlighted
New Member

Re: Data is leaving! Trying to catch culprit!

Good Morning Liz,
I chatted directly with Glasswire and this is their response,

"GlassWire can currently only see data on the device it's installed on and GlassWire can only currently be installed on Windows PCs. Therefore if you install GlassWire on your Windows PCs you can see what data they are using in detail and see if they are the culprits. Then if you find your PCs aren't causing the problem you can narrow the major data usage down to your other devices."

While Glasswire can and probably will give me more information, it really will not tell me exactly what was happening unless the data being lost is being caused by my PC or my husband's laptop. I have 4 wire less devices connected to the internet, nothing else. (No TV, No Printer, No game systems (don't own), nothing else.) My 4 wireless devices have everything, locked down, nothing is updated, nothing communicates, etc. (Sad, because this is what we purchased these devices for) So-- yes, if I used Gwalks awesome, very explanatory, detailed diagrams using deduction and reasoning, I could "Maybe" get a good "guesstimate" of what is using the data. HOWEVER--- going to my original issue with hughesnet, back in July... the amts of data lost were so incredible, that wireless devices could not have downloaded that much, in that short of time.

I stand firmly behind my conviction, that we, (our household as a system) did not download that amount of data. Of course, I have no proof, sadly. the proof is somewhere.. and maybe Hughesnet will work on it. 

Either way, I am leaving HughesNet on the last day of my billing cycle which is the end of this week.

I have to say, THIS COMMUNITY has BEEN ABSOLUTELY INCREDIBLE, PATIENT, AND ever SO Knowledgeable!  I truly appreciate EVERYONE that I interacted with!!!

YOU ARE ALL AWESOME! I THANK YOU ALL FOR THE AMOUNT OF TIME AND HELP YOU GAVE ME!!!

Your dedication to a company that you do not work for, yet you have so much belief in, is extremely admirable. I hope every one of you has extreme success in your futures!   

THANKS AGAIN!!!

Kim
Moderator
Moderator

Re: Data is leaving! Trying to catch culprit!

Good morning Kim,

You're correct, GlassWire can only account for the computer it's installed on. At the very least, you can rule out computers if you find insignificant usage there, before looking at the wireless devices.

Happy to see you've found help here in the community. This is why we are here. Smiley Happy Good luck with your future ISP.

Thanks,
Liz

Thanks,
Liz

Did my post answer your question? Accept as Solution to help others find it faster.--------------------------------->

Assistant Professor

Re: Data is leaving! Trying to catch culprit!

If I may, on my system if something was downloading at the speed I often get (20 Mbps) then it would take only about half an hour to download 5 GB. That's a lot in a short time.

Honorary Alumnus

Re: Data is leaving! Trying to catch culprit!

Kim,

In our original postings I would have posted this:


Divide and Conquer is the name of the game ... and it is essential.

A typical "home network" looks like this:


It is much too complicated to determine the "leak"

The Modem has access ... but we already performed an isolation test

The Router "guts" have access

Anything and everything with wireless range .. both authorize AND unauthorized devices COULD have access

Fi nally all wired computers have access.


During the troubleshooting phase the "network" MUST be reduced to the minimum number of variables.

It needs to have the router removed from the equation so as to look like this:

The number of variables has been brought down to a manageable level.

The main take-away of the above is to illustrate the absolute need to reduce the number of "data paths" to ONE.


I then go on to say:


"It now is time to download and install some software to track usage and identify what program and what process is or has been running and using data.

For this we need Glasswire:

https://www.glasswire.com/ help/

An important point here .....

GlassWire will only monitor the single computer upon which it is installed.

Later as the router is reintroduced, GlassWire will have to be installed on every Windows computer that is connected to the router"



Later on in that post I addressed the problems associated with wireless devices:


"Now comes the stickey part the re-introduction of the routers wireless function.

Its tough because I know of no software that will load on the variety of devices that CAN connect ... cell phone, tablet and so forth.

On laptop computers you can od course load GlassWire but that still leaves many potential avenues open.

The "Poor Mans" method requires great discipline. ALL devices other than a single one have to be and remain in a "hard off" state and that is not easy to do.

Run that single device over time and monitor usage carefully while still running Glasswire and the "difference" is ... the amount used by THAT device."



Honestly, the biggest problem faced is the reluctance of users to remove the router in the early phases of the investigation.

Not removing the router allows for a large number of "end around" connections that can use data.

The idea was to:

#1: Simplify the network by removing the router and connecting a single computer to the modem.

#2: Installing Glasswire on THAT computer to measure and record Who, What, When and Where data was being used on THAT machine .... and only THAT machine.

#3: When the first computer is "under control" we move on to the next computer repeating steps #1 & #2

#4: Finally when all wired computers are known to be running well ..... we need to make a guided assessment of your routers GUI settings BUT THE "RADIO" DISABLED.

Once the router main settings have been reviewed we can reconnect the router (sans "radio") and connect all the WIRED devices to the router and check operation of the network. It is important for a user to understand that there are portions of the router itself that connect to the Internet and can use data. This is in ADDITION to any connected devices.

I don't expect you to know this, I don't expect you to make those setting changes by yourself. That is why I asked you previously .... DO YOU KNOW HOW TO TAKE A SCREENSHOT AND POST IT HERE IN THE COMMUNITY ...

As I said: a LINIEAR, GUIDED effort to find the leak.

With 65,536 comm ports PER computer, PLUS router GUI settings PLUS innate router vulnerabilities PLUS wireless channel vulnerabilities PLUS wireless connected devices. both authorized and unauthorized. and their many varied apps and background processes it becomes Mission Impossible to find the cause with out breaking to network down to the simplest most common connection ... a single computer directly connected, monitored and proven "clean and fit for duty.

I never misled you on the function and scope of Glasswire and what and how it monitored.

It appears that you just didn't read what a wrote, chose to "pick % choose" what steps you wished to follow in spite of my having said it was a progressive linear designed to be sure of a solid foundation before proceeding to the next step .... or you simply didn't understand something .... at which point you should have stopped, posted the question or asked for clarification.

    





Assistant Professor

Re: Data is leaving! Trying to catch culprit!

She is leaving HughesNet so all kind of moot now. Best wishes with new ISP.
Honorary Alumnus

Re: Data is leaving! Trying to catch culprit!

True, hopefully it will not have data limits.

It is said that fully 25-30% of all computers are infected with virus/malware/adware infections ... despite running an A/V program.

That's a high percentage.

We never did get an output of what Glasswire found running on the PC's let alone Router GUI settings/security or wireless settings/encryption.

As you say, moot point for Kim at this point but there are many others that will read this thread and wonder at the "failure".

The root cause of the failure in this case was a reluctance to follow the steps outlined.


New Member

Re: Data is leaving! Trying to catch culprit!

Oh come on GWALK! I compliment you all over the place, up one side and down another for trying to help me and taking so much time with me and how I greatly appreciate it and you chastise me ? You chastise me and equate me to the same people who come to the community with one post, cuss out hughesnet and then leave, to never even try to listen? Seriously, am I just like them?

Once again, the post above this one is huge and overwhelming TO ME. It is full of a lot of information and words that are foreign to me. Please excuse me for not being on the same level of intellect, concerning computers and networks , as you are. I have tried, I have given up a lot of time, my hobbies, and many a family outing, to try and work on this. In all honesty, I said it before, and I will say it again, I truly think my "obsession" of trying to learn and solve this, literally made me sick. Perhaps you have not noticed, (and truly why would you need to notice) but I have greatly reduced my time on this community because it has become so stressful for me. I don't know how I can explain to you that what is easy for you and others, is NOT easy for me, and I suspect many others. Maybe HughesNet needs to give a proficiency test to see if we can "learn" how to use the system!? I know... I would not pass!

To ANY NEW MEMBER of this community, that may truly get this far in reading. this post...GWALK may appear rough around the edges and grumpy at times, but, he is truly a very knowledgable man who knows what he is talking about. He uses awesome graphics and diagrams to demonstrate his point. His advice is spot on... Unfortunately, due to my own limited knowledge on how computers work, I was not able to solve my issues. Good luck to you and I hope you fare better!

So once again, I will THANK YOU GWALK and I will THANK THIS COMMUNITY, and each member and each employee, FOR ALL OF THE HELP THEY HAVE GIVEN ME! I appreciate each and every one of you. I have learned a lot, never enough, but a lot about how data works, and how sneaky it can be. While this experience has been frustrating at times, it has been educational, and there is nothing wrong with knowledge. I wish all of you the best in your future endeavors. I am out.... Drops the mic...
Kim
New Member

Re: Data is leaving! Trying to catch culprit!

This is interesting info! Can I ask what website?