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Latency highly variable but bad for simple browsing - several seconds regularly

MarkJFine
Associate Professor

Re: Latency highly variable but bad for simple browsing - several seconds regularly


@RandyPAlex wrote:
I ran a tracert and got back the 600ms ish response as you suggested. But that’s not TCP data, right? Congestion would be apportioned data rate being lower, not lag in response, right?

It could manifest itself in both speed and latency depending on the nature of the congestion and where within the HughesNet system or internet backbone that it resides. Congestion on Gen5 can also appear 'bursty', where the envelope of a speed graph appears somewhat sinusoidal as the congested packets are handled, with your's being handled in-between.


* Disclaimer: I am a HughesNet customer and not a HughesNet employee. All of my comments are my own and do not necessarily represent HughesNet in any way.
MarkJFine
Associate Professor

Re: Latency highly variable but bad for simple browsing - several seconds regularly

It's definitiely Cheyenne, but didn't think that problem was a latency problem and thought those problems were cleared up.

 

Can't remember if Cheyenne is handled by CenturyLink or not, but chances are that it is because they've basically bought everyone else, including Level3 and Qwest. Can tell by the IP in hop 4 or 5 (whatever follows the last DirecWay hop out of the system and into the backbone) in a basic traceroute.


* Disclaimer: I am a HughesNet customer and not a HughesNet employee. All of my comments are my own and do not necessarily represent HughesNet in any way.
RandyPAlex
New Poster

Re: Latency highly variable but bad for simple browsing - several seconds regularly

I just signed up with HN because my local DSL provider had <1Mbps that would come and go to even worse conditions. I hung in there for several years in expectation that they would replace the DSLAM that was the pinchpoint, but finally gave up. Honestly I could tolerate having only several Mbps steady bandwidth with latency <1 second but latency of several seconds almost all the time and bursts of 25Mbps feels almost the same as 1Mbps with negligible latency.

 

What is the plan to mitigate the effective latency? Where should I send the wireshark trace to support the investigation?

MrBuster
Senior

Re: Latency highly variable but bad for simple browsing - several seconds regularly


I am also on the Cheyenne gateway, but have not had any noticeable issues recently with either latency or bandwidth. One thing that might be useful is to compare what the HughesNet System Control Center shows as your round trip time for the satellite (RTT). You can see this from this link:

 

http://192.168.0.1/limited.html

 

Under 'Diagnostics' in the menu on the left of this screen is an option for 'Hourly History' which looks like this:

 

 

 

hourly.png

 

3 GMT is 10 PM Eastern, so column 3 (9 pm to 10 pm Eastern) is the peak time for me.  The 'X' for downlink this morning was due to bad weather for me.

 

Each hour is is shown in GMT, rather than your time zone, but each number in the header is a link for a detailed chart that looks like this:

 

detail.png


The link to the detailed chart has a bug in that an '!' is left out of the URL, so you have to edit that in manually to get to the detail page. The Activity box also has a minor bug in that 'Uplink' is just the 'Downlink' data repeated.

 

There is a row for 'RTT' which turns to an 'X' if the round trip time over the satellite is over 2000ms. This time excludes the time at the gateway and Internet so this is useful to see if the satellite is having a large latency only during 'rush hour' due to congestion specifically on your beam, or if something else is going on.

 

If the RTT is only an 'X' during the prime time 'rush hour' then maybe you are seeing congestion on your beam.
If there are no 'X' marks for RTT, then maybe the issue is at the gateway or route to the site.
If the RTT is an 'X' throughout the day, then maybe there is an issue that the support folks can help with.

 

If showing a screen shot of this page hide the account numbers at the top....

 

 

MarkJFine
Associate Professor

Re: Latency highly variable but bad for simple browsing - several seconds regularly

Chances are the distance between you and the satellite, plus the distance between the satellite and the ground station on the west coast is sufficient to create an approximate 525mS (a little more than half a second) transmission time. That's as fast as a 20GHz radio signal can travel at the speed of light.

 

Multiply that for each ping to every ad, image, javascript, html or css file on any standard web site and there could be 100s. This is the absolute minimum overall lag time you could hope to experience over satellite internet.

 

Now add to that any processing delays at the ground station due to any congestion, as well as any transmission delays in the route generated by the ground station's internet provider.

 

If you're looking to mitigate lag times lower than this, good luck with that.


* Disclaimer: I am a HughesNet customer and not a HughesNet employee. All of my comments are my own and do not necessarily represent HughesNet in any way.
RandyPAlex
New Poster

Re: Latency highly variable but bad for simple browsing - several seconds regularly

Thanks MrBuster. That is actionable information. I'll take a look at it when I get home tonight. 

maratsade
Distinguished Professor III

Re: Latency highly variable but bad for simple browsing - several seconds regularly

Really? Actionable how?

 

 

RandyPAlex wrote:

 That is actionable information.

RandyPAlex
New Poster

Re: Latency highly variable but bad for simple browsing - several seconds regularly

Actionable... something I can take action on. Just the literal meaning 'able to take some action'

I can look at my router and help split the dictionary, so to speak. If there are tons of RTT errors it seems that it points to something involved with the satelite exchange. If there are none then it says the lag is in in other half of the dictionary - the ground based portion or the specific site lagging in response. Or did I misunderstand. It is an action that can be taken to move troubleshooting effort forward based on data. Conjecture does none of that. I'm not sure who MrBuster is but I appreciate people sharing concrete things that I can act on that moves problem solving more concretely forward.  

I'd done what I could think of by capturing a few wireshark traces to put data to the TCP lag of the system, whatever the source(s). MrBuster gave me something tangible that helps bring additional data. 

(I didn't even think of the darker overtones that can be implied by "actionable". I didn't mean any of those.)

 

maratsade
Distinguished Professor III

Re: Latency highly variable but bad for simple browsing - several seconds regularly

Oh, i know what the term means. I just wanted to know how this was actionable for you.  You explained how, so cheers! 

MrBuster
Senior

Re: Latency highly variable but bad for simple browsing - several seconds regularly


@RandyPAlex wrote:

Actionable... something I can take action on. Just the literal meaning 'able to take some action'

I can look at my router and help split the dictionary, so to speak. If there are tons of RTT errors it seems that it points to something involved with the satelite exchange. If there are none then it says the lag is in in other half of the dictionary - the ground based portion or the specific site lagging in response. Or did I misunderstand. It is an action that can be taken to move troubleshooting effort forward based on data. Conjecture does none of that. I'm not sure who MrBuster is but I appreciate people sharing concrete things that I can act on that moves problem solving more concretely forward.  

I'd done what I could think of by capturing a few wireshark traces to put data to the TCP lag of the system, whatever the source(s). MrBuster gave me something tangible that helps bring additional data. 

(I didn't even think of the darker overtones that can be implied by "actionable". I didn't mean any of those.)

 


I think you have the idea.  If your screen looks like image below, then I suspect you may just be seeing congestion on your beam during evening prime time, and things might be better at other times -- hours 1,2,3 are GMT so subtract 5 to get Eastern time as most of beam 49 seems to be Eastern:

hourly - probablycongestion.png

 

 

 

 

If your screen look like the image below, then the issue may be at the gateway or past the gateway.  Since I am also on the same gateway (CHY) and am seeing good performance over the last 24 hours, I would therefore suspect if you are seeing this, then the issue is beyond the HughesNet gateway and traceroute may track down what is happening.

 

hourly - probablyLevel3orGateway.png

 

 

 

If your screen looks more like this image below, then maybe your dish needs aligned or there are trees in the way or something the HughesNet folks can assist with.

 

hourly - probablyDishMisalignedBadWeatheretc.png