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Phantom usage, Hulu and Netflix

maratsade
Distinguished Professor III

Re: Phantom usage, Hulu and Netflix

I have a feeling this situation happens a lot more often than we think, and it may explain many of the "where did my data go?" cases.   

 


@MarkJFine wrote:

Another possibility is that whatever was doing the streaming may have 'double-clutched' everything. That can happen if  virtually every packet has to be sent 1-3 times from the streaming server. That can happen due to a weak wifi signal. It can also happen in the case of very high latency situations due to congestion, because the streaming server didn't get an ack before it timed out and just resent it. Buffering is a good indication that's actually the case.


 

MrBuster
Senior

Re: Phantom usage, Hulu and Netflix


@maratsade wrote:

I have a feeling this situation happens a lot more often than we think, and it may explain many of the "where did my data go?" cases.   

 


@MarkJFine wrote:

Another possibility is that whatever was doing the streaming may have 'double-clutched' everything. That can happen if  virtually every packet has to be sent 1-3 times from the streaming server. That can happen due to a weak wifi signal. It can also happen in the case of very high latency situations due to congestion, because the streaming server didn't get an ack before it timed out and just resent it. Buffering is a good indication that's actually the case.


 


For what it's worth, because of the number of folks that use my system when they are here, I watch the data usage like a hawk.  The only times I have seen double/multiple hits of the data coming over the satellite were the following:

  • Christmas morning 2017 (or maybe it was 2018) My nephew's boy had an XBoxOne that went to download a 700MB patch.  MS bypasses the normal data verification methods in favor of having the device check a CRC in the file itself to see if all is good after the download completes.  If the check fails, they download the patch again.  On that morning they uploaded a patch with the wrong CRC so XBoxOne game machines everywhere downloaded that same patch over and over and over.  MS fixed it by that the afternoon, but it chewed through lots of data before I realized the XBoxOne was up to something.  Since they are bypassing the normal verification of each packet to reduce congestion(?), I don't think HughesNet, or any other ISP could do anything to stop it--and as the CRC was part of the file sent the machine would reject the patch to download again anyway.
  • Using Netflix - especially the android version somehow I hit play causing it to stream from online even when I had it downloaded.  I have no idea why this happened, maybe my fingers shake too much.  I went to shutting down the WiFi connection to be sure it played from the saved file rather than streaming it again.

Android phones (especially the ATT ones) seem to like to download patches from 10pm-1am which eats from the AnyTime bucket, but this is not really double downloading, just a case of devices eating data without giving a clue since they do it even if the owner of the phone swears they were shut off.

 

 

As extracting details of usage by device on the HT2000W is a byzantine process, It would be nice if the installer would give advice/suggestions for routers that have built in data monitoring to use.  Having the router do it allows you to easily track all devices -- even the ones nobody tells you about because they sneak them into the house.  

 

I did attempt to create "double billing" of data in various tests early on, but did not accomplish it.  I tried the following:

 

  • Creating packet collision/resends over the LAN over Ethernet
  • Creating data packet resend over the WiFi by collisions with other WiFi devices or by moving to be out of range or nearly out of range.
  • Attempting repeated Internet speed test during very bad weather when I knew the satellite would need to retransmit some percent of the data packets.

Now I did get data sent again under the scenario where I start a YouTube on a phone or computer, then suddenly shutdown the phone (hard powerdown) or kill the browser on the computer, then reload the page -- but I expected this to need a new reload since I did not think anything would cache the data that came over the first time.

 

Let me know if you found a scenario that does it -- I mostly tried simple but monotonous methods.

 

 

 

 

bronccat
Junior

Re: Phantom usage, Hulu and Netflix

I'm using the "data counter widget" for android. I filtered down to where I was only looking at wifi usage (only on wifi here).

This part of the discussion isn't a HN problem - it's me not understanding (and being fearful) of where this consumption came from for these two apps.

Only thing I can figure is that the downloads didn't actually finish in town and did so here - but I checked to make sure they were complete before I got home to avoid this.

So...
I only cast the DL content, didn't stream, didn't DL anything new - and used 1.5 GB apparently in the process lol.

So, now I am watching the monitor you suggested for the entire network plus the one on my droid.

No one is possibly logged into our network as we aren't within range of anyone and in the forest + secure connection.

Thanks

bronccat
Junior

Re: Phantom usage, Hulu and Netflix

My assumption was that was exactly what happened - I was streaming, not playing the DL. But, no buffering and hi res.

I have done some cursory research elsewhere about these apps using data while playing DL content and finding nothing.
GabeU
Distinguished Professor IV

Re: Phantom usage, Hulu and Netflix

@MarkJFine 

@maratsade 

 

Wasn't there a situation a couple of years back where a person was watching something that they had already downloaded, but for some reason the app or app setting got messed up and thought that it was supposed to happen remotely, like one device is acting as a remote server, so what actually happened is that the show/movie uploaded from that "remote server" and down to the viewing device rather than directly from device to device and bypassing the net?  I can't remember if that's exactly what happened, and I can't remember if it was using a streaming device like a Firestick or Roku.  I just remember it was a really weird situation.

 

I think Amanda was in the thread as well.


Ryzen 5 3400G | MSI B450M Pro-M2 MAX | 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4 3000 | XPG SX8200 Pro 512GB NVMe | Windows 10 Pro
maratsade
Distinguished Professor III

Re: Phantom usage, Hulu and Netflix

I don't remember that at all, @GabeU ....

MarkJFine
Associate Professor

Re: Phantom usage, Hulu and Netflix

I can't remember what I had for dinner last night...


* Disclaimer: I am a HughesNet customer and not a HughesNet employee. All of my comments are my own and do not necessarily represent HughesNet in any way.
bronccat
Junior

Re: Phantom usage, Hulu and Netflix

So, last night I didn't play any downloads - we just streamed Hulu for an hour or so before bed on the firestick.  Data for the data was 1.5 gb.  I used .5 of that on my phone.

I am going to play a DL later today and see what Glasswire sees when I do this...

bronccat
Junior

Re: Phantom usage, Hulu and Netflix

Also turned off auto-update on Doird apps and Win10 apps.  Like this AM I had already used .4 GB on Droid updates

MarkJFine
Associate Professor

Re: Phantom usage, Hulu and Netflix

6-700MB/hr is about the receive rate for 720p HD. Add to that how much is sent back during handshaking (both are included in usage), which could ~5%. Hopefully you weren't running much lower resolution than that to get to 1.5GB. If you were running 360p or 480p, there might be an issue because those would be significantly less.


* Disclaimer: I am a HughesNet customer and not a HughesNet employee. All of my comments are my own and do not necessarily represent HughesNet in any way.