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Phantom usage, Hulu and Netflix

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bronccat
Junior

Phantom usage, Hulu and Netflix

Yesterday HN says we used 3.3gb.  We streamed YoutubeTV in low res for about 1.5 hours.  Then we turned everything off and we were gone all day.
Last night we played 2 hours of video that I downloaded to my phone while we were in town.  I made sure it was fully downloaded before coming home.

So, where did the data go?

My phone data tracker says that 1.5 GB was consumed by NF and Hulu (on wifi).  How? Why?

23 REPLIES 23
maratsade
Distinguished Professor IV

Even at low resolution, data will get used, and it adds up more quickly than we think. There is also the possibility that apps on your TV or other devices were using data  for something. 

 

Finding out where the data went and what used it is something that you will need to investigate from your side -- to do so, you may want to install the free Glasswire network monitor (available for Windows and Android). 

 

 

 

 

Thanks - but that's my point.  I know what Hulu and NF used - but don't know how?  I was only playing previously DL content.
I will check out Glasswire.  Thanks!

maratsade
Distinguished Professor IV

n/a

maratsade
Distinguished Professor IV

The answer to "how" is, by connecting to the internet and downloading stuff.  I think what you need to know is when and who. 

It's certainly a mystery, but unfortunately, you need to do the detective work yourself, and this can take some time. 

You should also check to see what's connected to your network, which you can do by going here:  http://192.168.0.1/limited.html#!/general/summary

Look under Advanced Menu -- General -- Connected Device Info.    It shows what's currently connected and also currently disconnected devices.  Maybe this will shed some light?

I don't think you're following me. The 1.5 GB I'm concerned about was on my phone (as per my monitoring app).

Maybe I should ask this differently - will playing Hulu and NF videos (100% downloaded elsewhere) consume data? Point is, if watching 1.5 hours of Low res TV and previously downloaded content consumes 3.3 GB - we're screwed.
Please keep in mind it's only two of us, with 3 devices on top of a mountain - no one is robbing data.

Thanks for the Tip on the network monitor - downloaded it and its pretty awesome!

Is it remotely possible that you thought you were watching the downloaded copy, but somehow ended up re-downloading it or watching the streamed version? For example: I once tried to schedule my DirecTV DVR to remotely record a movie off of a channel for watching later, but mistakenly had the DVR download the on-demand version... in 1080p HD no less. Was not a happy camper.


* Disclaimer: I am a HughesNet customer and not a HughesNet employee. All of my comments are my own and do not necessarily represent HughesNet in any way.

I was worried about that before I even started lol (what a nightmare!)
My OCD side went back to downloads and started watching 3 or 4 times to make sure I was watching the DL version

Another possibility is that whatever was doing the streaming may have 'double-clutched' everything. That can happen if  virtually every packet has to be sent 1-3 times from the streaming server. That can happen due to a weak wifi signal. It can also happen in the case of very high latency situations due to congestion, because the streaming server didn't get an ack before it timed out and just resent it. Buffering is a good indication that's actually the case.


* Disclaimer: I am a HughesNet customer and not a HughesNet employee. All of my comments are my own and do not necessarily represent HughesNet in any way.
maratsade
Distinguished Professor IV

I have a feeling this situation happens a lot more often than we think, and it may explain many of the "where did my data go?" cases.   

 


@MarkJFine wrote:

Another possibility is that whatever was doing the streaming may have 'double-clutched' everything. That can happen if  virtually every packet has to be sent 1-3 times from the streaming server. That can happen due to a weak wifi signal. It can also happen in the case of very high latency situations due to congestion, because the streaming server didn't get an ack before it timed out and just resent it. Buffering is a good indication that's actually the case.


 


@maratsade wrote:

I have a feeling this situation happens a lot more often than we think, and it may explain many of the "where did my data go?" cases.   

 


@MarkJFine wrote:

Another possibility is that whatever was doing the streaming may have 'double-clutched' everything. That can happen if  virtually every packet has to be sent 1-3 times from the streaming server. That can happen due to a weak wifi signal. It can also happen in the case of very high latency situations due to congestion, because the streaming server didn't get an ack before it timed out and just resent it. Buffering is a good indication that's actually the case.


 


For what it's worth, because of the number of folks that use my system when they are here, I watch the data usage like a hawk.  The only times I have seen double/multiple hits of the data coming over the satellite were the following:

  • Christmas morning 2017 (or maybe it was 2018) My nephew's boy had an XBoxOne that went to download a 700MB patch.  MS bypasses the normal data verification methods in favor of having the device check a CRC in the file itself to see if all is good after the download completes.  If the check fails, they download the patch again.  On that morning they uploaded a patch with the wrong CRC so XBoxOne game machines everywhere downloaded that same patch over and over and over.  MS fixed it by that the afternoon, but it chewed through lots of data before I realized the XBoxOne was up to something.  Since they are bypassing the normal verification of each packet to reduce congestion(?), I don't think HughesNet, or any other ISP could do anything to stop it--and as the CRC was part of the file sent the machine would reject the patch to download again anyway.
  • Using Netflix - especially the android version somehow I hit play causing it to stream from online even when I had it downloaded.  I have no idea why this happened, maybe my fingers shake too much.  I went to shutting down the WiFi connection to be sure it played from the saved file rather than streaming it again.

Android phones (especially the ATT ones) seem to like to download patches from 10pm-1am which eats from the AnyTime bucket, but this is not really double downloading, just a case of devices eating data without giving a clue since they do it even if the owner of the phone swears they were shut off.

 

 

As extracting details of usage by device on the HT2000W is a byzantine process, It would be nice if the installer would give advice/suggestions for routers that have built in data monitoring to use.  Having the router do it allows you to easily track all devices -- even the ones nobody tells you about because they sneak them into the house.  

 

I did attempt to create "double billing" of data in various tests early on, but did not accomplish it.  I tried the following:

 

  • Creating packet collision/resends over the LAN over Ethernet
  • Creating data packet resend over the WiFi by collisions with other WiFi devices or by moving to be out of range or nearly out of range.
  • Attempting repeated Internet speed test during very bad weather when I knew the satellite would need to retransmit some percent of the data packets.

Now I did get data sent again under the scenario where I start a YouTube on a phone or computer, then suddenly shutdown the phone (hard powerdown) or kill the browser on the computer, then reload the page -- but I expected this to need a new reload since I did not think anything would cache the data that came over the first time.

 

Let me know if you found a scenario that does it -- I mostly tried simple but monotonous methods.

 

 

 

 

My assumption was that was exactly what happened - I was streaming, not playing the DL. But, no buffering and hi res.

I have done some cursory research elsewhere about these apps using data while playing DL content and finding nothing.
GabeU
Distinguished Professor IV

@MarkJFine 

@maratsade 

 

Wasn't there a situation a couple of years back where a person was watching something that they had already downloaded, but for some reason the app or app setting got messed up and thought that it was supposed to happen remotely, like one device is acting as a remote server, so what actually happened is that the show/movie uploaded from that "remote server" and down to the viewing device rather than directly from device to device and bypassing the net?  I can't remember if that's exactly what happened, and I can't remember if it was using a streaming device like a Firestick or Roku.  I just remember it was a really weird situation.

 

I think Amanda was in the thread as well.

maratsade
Distinguished Professor IV

I don't remember that at all, @GabeU ....

I can't remember what I had for dinner last night...


* Disclaimer: I am a HughesNet customer and not a HughesNet employee. All of my comments are my own and do not necessarily represent HughesNet in any way.

So, last night I didn't play any downloads - we just streamed Hulu for an hour or so before bed on the firestick.  Data for the data was 1.5 gb.  I used .5 of that on my phone.

I am going to play a DL later today and see what Glasswire sees when I do this...

Also turned off auto-update on Doird apps and Win10 apps.  Like this AM I had already used .4 GB on Droid updates

6-700MB/hr is about the receive rate for 720p HD. Add to that how much is sent back during handshaking (both are included in usage), which could ~5%. Hopefully you weren't running much lower resolution than that to get to 1.5GB. If you were running 360p or 480p, there might be an issue because those would be significantly less.


* Disclaimer: I am a HughesNet customer and not a HughesNet employee. All of my comments are my own and do not necessarily represent HughesNet in any way.

This is crazy. I am now monitoring everything. We've been gone all day and here are the current stats:

10/20 at 620 pm
HN says I used 515 MB today
0 on Firestick
0 laptop
0 on iphone
35 mb Android
maratsade
Distinguished Professor IV

You should use this troubleshooting procedure to demonstrate data leaks: https://community.hughesnet.com/t5/Tech-Support/Where-s-my-bytes-Testing-for-data-leaks/m-p/77194#M5...

 

The HN reps on this site will require that you demonstrate the data leak if you would like for them to address the issue. 

 

EDIT: Actually, use what @GabeU posted. It's more up to date. 

GabeU
Distinguished Professor IV

@bronccat 

 

In that case, I suggest running the following test, which will determine where the problem lies, as in with HughesNet or your network.

 

If you don't have the HughesNet Usage Meter mentioned in the instructions, and because it's no longer available for download, you can use the data levels shown at the System Control Center for this.  It's a modem page, and you can get there by going to either...

 

www.systemcontrolcenter.com

or

http://192.168.0.1/#!/usage

 

You may need to click Home on the left to show the data levels.  

 

Make sure to include your system clock in the snapshot of your data levels.  If using the System Control Center, it should be like this...

 

Capture.PNG

 

Other than this HughesNet Usage Meter and System Control Center picture issue, please follow the instructions as written.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Please perform the following test outlined in the graphic below, though follow the full instructions written below the graphic. This is known as a Modem Isolation Test, and it will help to determine whether the issue is with HughesNet or your local network..

photo P2hSeDN.jpg

1: Disable the WiFi in the HT2000W modem.
2: Take a screenshot of the HughesNet Usage Meter, along with the clock on your computer screen.
3: Disconnect the LAN cable from the modem, noting the date and time of disconnect.
4: Leave the LAN cable disconnected from the modem for several hours. HughesNet recommends doing this overnight, or during the day while at work. DO NOT unplug the modem from the power. The modem must remain powered.
5: Reconnect the LAN cable to the modem, noting the date and time of reconnect.
6: Take a screenshot of the HughesNet Usage Meter, along with the clock displayed on your computer.
7: Post your screenshots to the community.

The screenshots should look similar to the following, being dependent on the operating system, with the system clock included (you can move the Usage Meter window to being near the system clock so that it is included more easily).

photo mfQBdeH.jpg

Do not unplug, power cycle or internally reboot the modem after the test has been run, as the reps need to be able to reconcile your modem data logs with what is shown in the screenshots. Any of those three things will wipe out those logs, rendering the test results moot. Only after the reps have responded with their findings should any of those three things be done.

Please be aware that, if you downloaded any large files just prior to this test, some usage may appear to have occurred due to the slight delay (lag) in the modem reporting the data usage to the server, but it should be rather negligible.

If you don't know how to disable the WiFi in the HT2000W, please see "How do I manage my built-in WiFi modem?" in this PDF. Please be sure to click "Save Settings" after unchecking "SSID Enable" for each of the four tabs individually (2.4Ghz, then 2.4Ghz Guest, then 5Ghz, then 5Ghz Guest).