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Rapid data drain during second half of data cycle

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Sweetpea3829
Tutor

Rapid data drain during second half of data cycle

Ok, I posted about this on a similar thread, just a couple of days ago, and that thread has been deleted.  

 

Every data cycle, we start off doing just fine.  Our data depletes by about 2-3 GB during the first half of the cycle.  Then, during the second half of the cycle, the data just DRAINS.  Nothing changes in our usage from the first half of the cycle to the second half.  

 

This has been going on for several months.  

 

To answer some questions I've seen asked of others...

 

1) Wifi is never left on on any of the devices that we own that use it.  (This would be a number of tablets...all of which have their wifi turned off unless I, specifically, turn it on...only mom knows the password).  

 

2) Our phones' wifi is turned off (occasionally they are turned on, within range of our Hughesnet modem, but they are never left on, and we do not update under our own Wifi...that's what the YMCA wifi is for).  

 

3) We are not experiencing data stealing.  Our neighbors are old order Mennonite.  They do not have devices that use wifi.  Plus, we are password protected.  

 

4) My laptop is not automatically updating.  It only updates when I tell it to, and that's only during the 2AM-8AM time frame.

 

5) Our satellite TV is NOT connected to the internet.  I can connect it, but have only connected it during the 2AM to 8AM time frame.  

 

Again, during the first half of the month, I can check FB, email, news stories and watch the occasional short youtube clip and the data depletes at an expected rate.

 

During the second half...just leaving the modem turned on, and with no actual browsing, is a guaranteed half GB loss each day.  Yesterday evening, I had 2.7 GB left.  This morning I had 2.1  

 

I have today and tomorrow left in this data cycle and I'm almost guaranteed to run out of data at some point tomorrow, unless I turn off the router and browse only on my phone's data.  

 

Why is this happening?  And why has this been happening off and on for months?  

319 REPLIES 319

Reggie, we are not technically Southern Tier, but we're very close. Yates County.

That's interesting that you've noticed a similar pattern of data usage.
Reggie
Teaching Assistant


@Sweetpea3829 wrote:
How do I find out the Beam and Gateway?

First type 192.168.0.1 in the address bar. When the page loads look for System Information. Click this to load System Info. 

I hope this helps.

Same gateway and beam...

 image.png

 

Reggie
Teaching Assistant

I think I need to monitor my data usage & see if there is a trend .

 
  you should  PM Liz or Amanda so they can EDIT  your screenshots to remove your account #.

Thanks for the heads up!  I think I've edited them all.  

GabeU
Distinguished Professor IV

Ah.. Missed that.  Reggie said the same thing.  LOL. 

 

See, great southern tier minds think alike!  

 

You got 'em all.  🙂


Ryzen 5 3400G | MSI B450M Pro-M2 MAX | 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4 3000 | XPG SX8200 Pro 512GB NVMe | Windows 10 Pro



Just to keep this updated.  We are now on day 21 of the cycle and the data use is still very low.  I haven't been on a heck of a lot the past few days, but I HAVE been on here and there.  

 

I'm still waiting for the data drain to kick in.  Maybe it won't this month?  

 

image.pngimage.png

Actually, come to think of it...I WAS on quite a bit yesterday.  I had to send a number of pictures through email to our Mennonite neighbor (long story).  So yeah...I'm surprised the data isn't lower.  

@Sweetpea3829

 

I MAY have an explaination for you...especially if you are using Windows 10 platform.

 

..toward the middle of each month, Microsoft sends us Window 10 users all a little present (whether we like it or not) in the form of a

Cumulative Update, Windows 10 Version 1709

 

The download size of these monthly updates are often upwards of 1 - 2 GB.

Last month, November 14th, Microsoft issued the following KB4048955 cumulative update

Windows 10 Update kb4048955

 

and this month, December 12th, Microsoft issed the following KB4054517 cumulative update

Windows 10 Update kb4054517

 

You may very well be seeing the effects of these large AUTOMATIC downloads toward the middle and end of the month and may very be the reason your data may appear to be 'tanking'...

If this is the root cause of your problem, you can go into your Windows Settings, > Network & Internet,> Ethernet, and turn on your Metered Connection option.

 

Instead of these updates automatically downloading, they will simply be displayed as being 'available' for download under Windows Settings, > Update & Security > Windows Update and you can then manually download them at your convienience. 

(I usually download them very early in the morning around 6am..if I'm awake, during my bonus zone period)

bare65
Advanced Tutor

I also meant to add that even though these updates are issued on a specific date...your home computer may not recieve these updates for a few days afterwards.

Last month, the update was issued on Nov. 14th, but my own home computer never downloaded the update until Nov. 21st...

and this month, even though the update was issued on Dec. 12th, it wasn't until yesterday that my computer finally received them.


@bare65 wrote:

@Sweetpea3829

 

I MAY have an explaination for you...especially if you are using Windows 10 platform.

 

..toward the middle of each month, Microsoft sends us Window 10 users all a little present (whether we like it or not) in the form of a

Cumulative Update, Windows 10 Version 1709

 

The download size of these monthly updates are often upwards of 1 - 2 GB.

Last month, November 14th, Microsoft issued the following KB4048955 cumulative update

Windows 10 Update kb4048955

 

and this month, December 12th, Microsoft issed the following KB4054517 cumulative update

Windows 10 Update kb4054517

 

You may very well be seeing the effects of these large AUTOMATIC downloads toward the middle and end of the month and may very be the reason your data may appear to be 'tanking'...

If this is the root cause of your problem, you can go into your Windows Settings, > Network & Internet,> Ethernet, and turn on your Metered Connection option.

 

Instead of these updates automatically downloading, they will simply be displayed as being 'available' for download under Windows Settings, > Update & Security > Windows Update and you can then manually download them at your convienience. 

(I usually download them very early in the morning around 6am..if I'm awake, during my bonus zone period)



Unfortunately, this solution won't work for us.  I refused the Windows 10 upgrade and am still running the previous version (I think that's Windows 7?  I don't even remember...whatever was available in 2010).  

 

 

And, I suspect the late cycle slide is beginning.  

 

I've barely been on today and the data is DROPPING.  I'm going to double-check and make sure all devices are off, and that WIFI is off on all devices that have it.  

image.png

 

How about turn off wifi 2.5 and 5ghz on the router... then you know 100% non of your systems or any neighbor can't be leaching on to get data.  That way only the 1 PC direct connected to the router has access.  Leave that one system off and you should have zero data being used I would say.

TJ


@macsociety wrote:

How about turn off wifi 2.5 and 5ghz on the router... then you know 100% non of your systems or any neighbor can't be leaching on to get data.  That way only the 1 PC direct connected to the router has access.  Leave that one system off and you should have zero data being used I would say.

TJ


TJ, how does that work?  How would I go about doing that?  

 

I feel pretty darn confident that the neighbors are not leaching data.  For one, none of them are close enough to leach anything from us, lol.  For another, they are Old Order Mennonites.  All of them.  Think horse and buggy.  They actually come here when they want to use the internet, which isn't very often.  I do some side work for them here and there.  

 

So far today, I have not been on much...certainly no more than I was on the rest of this month.  Current stats...

 

image.png

Literally, I only posted the previous post with it's screen shot...and this is the updated data...

 

image.png

And yep, the slide has begun.  A little late this month.  So, let's recap...

1) The data usage is inconsistent in HOW it depletes from the beginning of the cycle, to the end of the cycle.  

2) There ARE NOT WIFI devices sapping data.  I confirmed that they were off this morning when I first posted, and nobody has touched any of the tablets.  Neither have our phones had the WIFI turned on. 

3) Automatic updates are turned off.  

4) Neighbors are not stealing data.  

5) We are light users, because of the data cap.  No streaming, no music, occasional short youtube videos (usually from FB).  Directv is NOT connected for internet.  The kids do not have gaming systems.  

6) I have turned off the modem, router, etc., and confirmed that data is not draining when they are off.  

 

Tonight, I did some googling for some DIY cedar chest plans.  I watched the data usage.  Pages would load and consume much more data than was happening at the beginning of the cycle.  

 

This is not a vampire data issue.  There is nothing else sucking data that shouldn't be.  

 

Just to reiterate...the data consumption is not consistent from the beginning of the cycle, to the end.  Perhaps the data consumption is less what it should be at the beginning.  Perhaps data is being used at a greater rate than it should be at the end.  I'm not sure which it is.  But whatever the case...I'd really appreciate answers as to why pages are consuming more data at the end of the cycle than at the beginning.  

 

Screen capture when I started writing this post.Screen capture when I started writing this post.Screen capture after the few minutes it took me to compost this post.Screen capture after the few minutes it took me to compost this post.

 

 

 

@Sweetpea3829
Just an off suggestion given the possibility: When was the last time you scanned your computer for viruses and malware. There has been a severe botnet that's kicked off recently and they are cyclical. It may be possible that your computer is part of it without you knowing it, as that's how those things work.


* Disclaimer: I am a HughesNet customer and not a HughesNet employee. All of my comments are my own and do not necessarily represent HughesNet in any way.

@Sweetpea3829

 

I noticed that some fellow users made suggestions and you never commented on them ... installing Glasswire for example.

This makes me a little reluctant to enter the fray but ...........

 

I understand your issue to be accelerated data usage, primarily during the latter part of your usage cycle.

 

So lets look at how data usage is recorded and reported:

 

Data "Traffic" takes a couple of different forms:

> Command & Control <

> User data including upload and download from both the wired and wireless portions of the Modem <

 

Command & Control is NOT charged against your data allowance

 

Download, Upload and re-transmission of data IS charged against your allowance.

 

So we have TWO different levels of communication between the modem and the Gateway going on.

When the Modem is powered on and there are no issues such as weather at either the user end or the Gateway end the Modem will tally the amount of data used and periodically, as part of the Command & Control, send information to the Gateway regarding the amount of data you have used since the last "sync cycle". That data is used to update the MyAccount usage meter, which then in turn updates the SCC usage meter, the download status meter and both usage "History" display meters.

 

For this to happen the Modem MUST remain powered on and in communication with the Gateway. If the Modem is powered off then the "sync cycle" is delayed, the usage and history meters are not updated in a timely manner and everything data related is delayed until the next sync cycle.

 

********* For the greatest accuracy, the modem must remain powered up and in communication with the Gateway ***********

 

You have to maintain the "Hughes Loop":

1 Hughes Loop.PNG

 

If you can't get past this one you will never have the best accuracy displayed by the usage and history meters .... period.

Powering off the Modem will cause data that had be used but not yet tallied to be deducted on the next sync cycle.

 

Lets look at a block diagram of a HT2000w modem and the "conneection paths" that data can travel:

WiFi modem main.png

 

There are four parts to the Modem:

 

1: Ethernet

2: Wireless

3: Router

4: Mod/Demod

 

1: Ethernet

Any and all devices plugged into an Ethernet port will have access to your data allowance.

Disconnecting ALL wired device WILL prevent communication along this "connection path".

It is NOT enough to have the device "turned off". I can think of at least three different "types" of "Off".

Only disconnection of ALL Ethernet cables will insure that this connection path is totally disabled.

 

2: Wireless

It is NOT enough to turn off the wireless function with a given device to insure the wireless connection paths are disabled.

You MUST turn off ALL FOUR wireless paths within the wireless portion of the Modem to be effective. This includes regular 2.4 ghz and 5.0 ghz paths plus the 2.4 and 5.0 "guest accounts". Even this can leave vulnerablilites such has have WPS enabled.

 

4: Mod/Demod we wish to have enabled and up and running because the periodic "sync cycles" that report cached usage is desired.

 

There are two connection paths we are concerned with:

Ethernet .... disconnect ALL the Etherent cables

Wireless .... All "radios" turned off within the Modem.

 

To gain control you HAVE to cut the "connection paths", both wired and wireless, at the central point .... at the Modem while leaving the "Command & Control" active.

 

That brings us to ... how to determine what is using data across the network.

 

The best method is to disable the "radios" in the modem and add your own Router ... one that can track data on all possable connection paths and display that usage per day or defined period per device, per device application.

That is the surest and fastest method.

 

I suggest you buy something like and Asus RT AC68u Router.

I have an Asus RT-AC3100, a little pricey ...

A AC68u running the asuswrt-merlin firmware will give you the Traffic Analyzer at a lower cost:

 

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833320174&cm_re=Asus_RT_aC68u-_-33-320-174-_-...

 

That will take the mystery out of the problem directly and allow you to take steps to control whatever is running, likely something in the background.

 

So, what is running?

A single computer has 65,536 "ports", each of which can connect to your interent connection.

Some you can see .... an open browser .... port 80, a email client program uses two more.

These are PROGRAMS ... but then we have something else .... PROCESSES.

These run unseen in the background.

 

Lets look at my Win7 laptop:

A peek at Windows Task Manager shows just a few "applicaions" running. These I can "see":

applicaions.PNG

 

Processes however are another matter, Task Manager shows 99 background PROCESSES running.

Processes.PNG

 

Each of these can and will use data, running unseen in the background. They will turn on, they will turn off, some are on a schedule, others are "triggered" by some condition or event.

Without being able to monitor all connections paths or running software such as Glasswire on a single machine, you simply have no idea what is using data unseen.

My advice: Buy the Asus router and get your answers in the quickest way possible.

It can be done by other methods but with the sporatic nature of your "late in cycle: usage .... it will be a lot harder.

 

 

 

 

 

As an addendum here is a shot of Glasswire from my laptop:

Glasswire.PNG

 

It shows a very detailed report of both Programs and Processes ... but only on this single machine.

 

My Router on the other hand gives a much more "global" picture of all devices tha have conneced and used data across all connection paths of my entire network:

 

All devices that connected over the past two days:

all two days.PNG

 

Statistics and hours of usage occurance over the last 24 hours for all devices:

Statistics.PNG

 

Hours of usage and active applications for a single device in the past 24 hour period.

single device.PNG

 

 

 

@Sweetpea3829

UNPLUG & DISCONNECT YOUR ENTIRE MODEM FROM YOUR COMPUTER (for 12 full hours)

While this suggestion may cause some inconvienience, it would seem to me to be your next logical step in figuring this 'data loss' out.

 

If you unplug your modem from the wall, and disconnect the ethernet cable from your computer (just for the **bleep** of it) and leave it unplugged for a good 12 hours, if not longer....you should NOT lose any data during that time.

Your meter should remain at the same % as it was showing right before you turned everything off.

(you can take a screen shot of your meter right before unplugging your modem)

 

The Hughesnet official reps @Liz or @Amanda can verify that you have actually unplugged your modem as they can see this on their end, so there would be no question as to whether you performed this test or not prior to revealing the results of such a test, especially in the event that you continue to lose data during this complete shutdown of equipment.

 

If you are still somehow using/losing data during these 12 hours of being unplugged, then YES, you obviously have a problem at which time one of the official reps will no doubt start an official investigation as to why this is happening.

 

If you don't use any data during this period of time, which I suspect that you won't....then regardless of what you may believe (you may not want to hear this), you, your kids, your amish neighbors and/or your computer and devices are indeed using more data than you think you are.

 

Again..while this may be somewhat of an inconvienience to your and your family...it certainly would clear up some of the mystery and allow the good folk on here to start narrowing down the cause of your 'toward the end of every the month' data loss...

Hi guys.  I just wanted to check in quick...we have family in for the week from out of state, and I won't have time to deal with this issue until next week.  But I didn't want to leave hanging, those of you who are trying to help.  

 

To clarify...I know for a fact that my neighbors are not using our data.  It would not even be possible, as they are not close enough.  And, my wifi is on a password (not that that would stop everyone, but again...we're dealing with horse and buggy folks here, not tech savvy teens).  

 

I also know for a fact that my kids are not using data without my awareness.  My oldest child is 12, their devices are always in my presence (our home has an open floor concept and the devices are stored in our great room).  I can't stress this enough.  They do not have access to their devices without my knowledge.  I know some of you may think I'm being naive, but you will have to trust me on this one.  

 

I have done the test where the modem is off/unplugged, etc.  No data was used.  I didn't think any would be, because data is not disappearing when I'm not on.  Data is depleting at a faster rate. In other words, if a page takes 5mb to load during the first two weeks...that same page is taking 10mb during the second half of the month.  

 

It IS possible that my own devices (well...basically only my laptop) could be using data when I am not aware, but it doesn't make sense that it would only do this during the second part of the month, every month.  The laptop IS always connected to the Wifi, and the modem/router connection for the laptop is always open.  (Caveat...when the data gets really low at the end of the month, I will often cut the wifi connection to help conserve data).  

 

Next month, I will have to monitor and see how much data is being used when the connection is open, but I am not actively using the laptop.  

 

Still, this doesn't make sense as to why it would run down more data during the second part of the cycle.  

 

So...next week, I will sit down and go over the suggestions offered here, with Glasswire, etc.  Of course, that will be the beginning of a new data cycle, so we'll be starting fresh, and I expect data depletion to be slower.  But perhaps that can be a baseline?  I don't know.  

 

I do want to say thanks to those who have offered to help, offered possible explanations and solutions, etc.  I need to get this figured out.  The data cap is so limited, I can't afford to have data issues like this.  

 

Attached are some screen shots of where we are with usage.  It's a little better this month than last, but I think that's because the slide began later in the month.  

 

Data cap from when I started this post.Data cap from when I started this post.Data cap from after I completed this post.Data cap from after I completed this post.image.png