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Sweetpea3829
Tutor

Rapid data drain during second half of data cycle

Ok, I posted about this on a similar thread, just a couple of days ago, and that thread has been deleted.  

 

Every data cycle, we start off doing just fine.  Our data depletes by about 2-3 GB during the first half of the cycle.  Then, during the second half of the cycle, the data just DRAINS.  Nothing changes in our usage from the first half of the cycle to the second half.  

 

This has been going on for several months.  

 

To answer some questions I've seen asked of others...

 

1) Wifi is never left on on any of the devices that we own that use it.  (This would be a number of tablets...all of which have their wifi turned off unless I, specifically, turn it on...only mom knows the password).  

 

2) Our phones' wifi is turned off (occasionally they are turned on, within range of our Hughesnet modem, but they are never left on, and we do not update under our own Wifi...that's what the YMCA wifi is for).  

 

3) We are not experiencing data stealing.  Our neighbors are old order Mennonite.  They do not have devices that use wifi.  Plus, we are password protected.  

 

4) My laptop is not automatically updating.  It only updates when I tell it to, and that's only during the 2AM-8AM time frame.

 

5) Our satellite TV is NOT connected to the internet.  I can connect it, but have only connected it during the 2AM to 8AM time frame.  

 

Again, during the first half of the month, I can check FB, email, news stories and watch the occasional short youtube clip and the data depletes at an expected rate.

 

During the second half...just leaving the modem turned on, and with no actual browsing, is a guaranteed half GB loss each day.  Yesterday evening, I had 2.7 GB left.  This morning I had 2.1  

 

I have today and tomorrow left in this data cycle and I'm almost guaranteed to run out of data at some point tomorrow, unless I turn off the router and browse only on my phone's data.  

 

Why is this happening?  And why has this been happening off and on for months?  

319 REPLIES 319

@bare65 @Sweetpea3829

 

Does anyone read anything that I post?

 

Said by @bare65

Disconnect.PNG

 

Unless directed to remove AC power from the Hughes Modem by one of the support reps, leave the Modem powered up!

 

************ Removing power from the Modem may actually make things more difficult. ************

If you remove AC power from the Modem all of the easy to read Modem logs will be lost. This is data that can be used to support your issue!

 

If you remove AC power from the Modem, any data that was used from the point of the last sync cycle to the time of AC shutdown will not be uploaded and applied to the various usage and history meters until the next power up. That will make it appeare that data was used during the powered off period.

 

To put the Modem in Isolation you need to break all connection paths between your equipment and the Modem.

This entails disconnecting all Ethernet cables from the Modem and disabling all wireless functions, not from your devices, but by turing off the "radios" from within the Modem itself ,,,,, all four channels, one at a time, saving your changes as you disable them.

 

2000 wifi.PNG

 

 

Don't make the job harder than it is, leave the Modem powered up unless there is a good reason to reboot it.

 

Said by @Sweetpea3829

 

"It IS possible that my own devices (well...basically only my laptop) could be using data when I am not aware, but it doesn't make sense that it would only do this during the second part of the month, every month."

 

I did alude to this in my response to you posted above:

> Scheduled tasks <

> Conditional triggers <

 

Some things we haven't touched upon:

 

> Depending upon which updates you have installed on your Win7 computer, there are several that cause the OS to emulate Win10 in respect to sharing "telemetry" with Microsoft <

 

> If you have an Nvidia graphics card on your computer, depending upon which driver you have installed, it too can be sharing you personal data, on a schedule, with Nvidia <

 

> If you have AVG antivirus installed, it also will share your personal data, on a schedule <

 

The list goes on ..... don't look for "blame", look for cause.

 

 

Just to drive home a point: (from my posted topic on data)

 

 

Every bit and byte of data has to run through the modem.

This useage is in three forms ......

>Data used by the modem itself in the form of "Command & Control" otherwise known as Overhead<

>Data used in the re-transmission of your data due to failing equipment<

>Data used by YOUR devices connected to the Modems LAN port<

There are procedures, processes and tools to assess and address each of these.

 

It is important to note that the Modem must remain powered up for the Hughes Loop to remain intact, that all internal Modem logs are retained so the forum Mods are able to use the data to support your issue and that all useage and history meters are updated as of the last modem "sync cycle" with the Gateway.

 

https://community.hughesnet.com/t5/Tech-Support/Understanding-data-usage-data-loss-and-connection-pa...

 

Other things:

1. Just turning the wifi off on devices and putting them in a room won't permanently disconnect them. Wifi on Apple devices will attempt reconnect on it's own at midnight. Could be that others do this as well.

2. Even if you turned the devices off, any automatic updates will initiate once the device/laptop is able, unless automatic updates is disabled. There could literally be GBs of app and OS updates just building up until the device is able to start downloading them, or knows that they are even available.

3. Were the devices/laptops ever scanned for viruses and malware? They could be sending things like zombie spam in the background... You have no idea how prevalent that is, and how many people don't even know it's happening.
Edit: Think I raised this once before and it was never answered.


* Disclaimer: I am a HughesNet customer and not a HughesNet employee. All of my comments are my own and do not necessarily represent HughesNet in any way.

@MarkJFine

Yes Mark, You did bring this up before.

I pay close attention to the ratio of upload to download on my system. Bad things love to yak.

 

I am a strong proponent of a good router that tracks data.

From my Asus RT-AC3100 (asuswrt-merlin firmware)

Daily usage, per day, per device broken out in total and upload/download:

usage 1.PNG

 

When was the data used?:

usage 2.PNG

 

What device used data on my network around 11 PM last night and where did it go?

usage 3.PNG

 

It was my Samsung Galaxy Tab4 that I brought home from work and forgot to shut down.

A router will cover eevery connection path into and out of your network.

 

@Gwalk900

Understand. My questions were really geared towards the OP as you've guessed.

Your solution makes diagnosis so simple: Having a router that tracks everything so you're not wondering where it went and when. Yet, how many times do we see the same questions over and over...


* Disclaimer: I am a HughesNet customer and not a HughesNet employee. All of my comments are my own and do not necessarily represent HughesNet in any way.

Guys, you'll have to bare with me...there were a lot of responses.  The tech jargon on some of these solutions is a bit above my immediate know-how.  

 

I'm not in a financial position to purchase a different router/modem/etc.  I can download Glasswire, and we can proceed from there.  Please though, when you're explaining to me, explain in idiot-steps, in the vein of "Data Usage for Dummies".  I DO want to solve this...I'm not looking to be difficult.  

 

My parents are leaving tonight to head home...tomorrow we have church and a New Year's Party with friends.  Monday is probably the earliest I can sit down and dig into this, though I think we're taking my 12 yr old out for her birthday.  

 

Real quick before I run off for one last card game with the 'rents.  

 

We don't have any Apple devices (that was mentioned).  The two Samsung Galaxy Tabs that we own have wanted to update for over a year, but there is not enough memory space on either one to do so.  I've been getting the "Updates" warning forever.  So I don't think it's the tablets' updates...because those aren't happening.  

 

And there are four Kindle Fires (cheapy ones, they're not high end) and they have a couple of books and a dictionary app.  Not much updating going on there, either.  Plus, those are rarely connected to Wifi.  

 

My phone is also "full", and isn't really able to update the way it should.  

Ok...the hubby is heading back to work.  The kids are out of school for the next two weeks.  I have some lesson plans to get done, and some house stuff, but otherwise, I can spend some time dealing with this data issue.

 

So...the first thing I should do is...?  Download Glasswire?  Can anybody clarify for me what impact Glasswire will have on my network, system, etc?  It says it's a firewall?  Once I download Glasswire, then what?  

 

For frame of reference...current data status is: Current data usage as of 9:22pm on 1/1/18Current data usage as of 9:22pm on 1/1/18December's usage graph.December's usage graph.

 

I think somebody mentioned that viruses are often a cause of data leaks, or improper data usage.  The comment was mentioned that the upload data can be very telling.  That monthly graph lets you see how much upload and download data was used per day, and the most upload data was 88 mb.  So I'm not sure a virus is causing this issue.  (But certainly, it's plausible).

 

For virus protection, I'm running Avast as my primary.  I honestly don't scan very often anymore.  But occasionally, I'll scan with a whole suite of programs, including Avast, Malwarebytes, Spybot, Fsecure, and I think I've also used Avira.  I occasionally run a boot scan with Avast.  Honestly, I'm much better at being proactive with virus protection/scans when my system is new.  This laptop is 7 yrs old and I've slacked a bit.  

 

So...please, any help you guys can offer...but please be gentle and clear, lol.  

GabeU
Distinguished Professor IV

@Sweetpea3829

 

I would definitely download and install Glasswire on each of the Windows based computers you use with HughesNet, and the free version is fine.  Glasswire will have very little overall impact on your computer, and practically no impact on your network.  What it will tell you, though, is everything that's using data on the computer it's installed on.  It says it's a firewall, but really it just gives you more control over Windows' built in firewall, but it doesn't change anything with that unless you actively do so, so you don't have to do anything with that if you don't want to.  I'd venture to say that most people use Glasswire simply for the data usage info and they don't even bother with any of the firewall settings.  Again, Glasswire's default firewall settings don't change any of the firewall settings on your computer, so if you don't want to do anything with the firewall part you can just leave it alone.  

 

After you install it, make sure to set the options to "Incoming & Outgoing" and "External".  The options are in a drop down menu that sits to the upper right of the data usage circle graph in the Usage tab.  I'll post a picture and put a red box where the options are.     

 

It runs at startup, and also just after you install it (I can't remember if it asks if you want it to start/run after it finishes installing or not, but if it does, you should do so).  It will start monitoring the data going in and out of your computer (not the actual data, but the amount) and all programs on your computer that is using it.  You'll be able to see a little of that in the picture I post, but you can see much more when you look at the individual apps and such.  So you'll basically be able to see where every byte of data is being used on your computer, which can come in very handy when trying to figure out what's using so much data.  It can also be broken down by week, day or hour, and everything in between, so if you find that something used a lot of data on a particular day, or even during a few hours of that particular day, you can see what it was (as long as it was on the computer, that is).  

 

Capture.JPG


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Done!  Now we sit and monitor, yes?  image.png

Current status...

 

I haven't been on a whole lot the past couple of days.  I do have some lesson planning coming up, some of which will require internet usage, including file downloads, etc.  Nothing heavy, but enough.  

 

Tonight, I downloaded three books on our Wifi, to my own personal Kindle.  There wasn't much change in the data used.  

image.pngimage.pngI don't know what any of this means, lol.I don't know what any of this means, lol.

GabeU
Distinguished Professor IV

Ooh, that updated Glasswire GUI looks cool, so I updated mine installation.  I'll have to check out that "Things".  

 

One thing you should do is, while in the Usage section (like in your picture), click on the little doohicky to the upper right of the circle graph, and select "Incoming & Outgoing" and "External".  Right now there is some Local data being figured in (the 1.9MB on the bottom right under the circle graph).  Local data is data that's being transferred back and forth within your computer, so you want to get rid of that, and by selecting "External" in the options it'll no longer include the internal data.  External basically means anything that coming into, or going out of, your computer through the internet, and that's what we want to keep track of.  

 

So, discounting that 1.9MB of Local data, at the time of that picture you had used a total of 152.4MB of internet data (that's the 154.3 minus the 1.9MB) on that computer on Jan4th.  From what's visible, 20.1MB of that was due to Avast, and 18.9MB of that was due to Windows (host processes), which is things like checking for updates and uploading data about your computer (Windows Telemetry).  And, 108.5MB was used through Chrome.  That's basically anything you've done via Chrome, whethger browsing, watching Youtube vids, Facebook, downloading files, etc.  If you click on Apps, and then Chrome, you'll be able to see all of the hosts that used Chrome.  Hosts being websites and links, such as downloads, through those websites.  Plus ads on websites and videos and such.  Though it only gives hosts, if you really needed to look at something you can find out what it is by host.  Like if you searched the host info in Google you'd be able to pinpoint which website or service that host belongs to.  But, that's getting more into the nitty gritty, and right now the biggest things to concentrate on is what you already have showing.  

 

Again, though, you should go into the options and make sure to select "Incoming & Outgoing" and "External" so that it's only counting what being transferred via the internet (through the HughesNet modem).  

 

Also, when you get more than a day in, you can go over to the right and change "Day" to "Week" or "Month", and that way you can see the data being used during that time.  You can also click on where it says "January 4" and select certain dates to view (only after those dates have happened, of course), and when you select Custom (same place as Day, Week and Month)  you can look at a span of dates...from Jan 4th through Jan 7th, or Jan 8th through Jan26th, or whatever you like.  


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Gabe, will I need to select "External" every time I pull up Glasswire?  Because I thought I had selected External before, when I downloaded it earlier this week.  But it seems to have defaulted.  Here are some additional screen shots...

 

image.pngimage.png

 

Everything appears, to me, to be on the up and up.  It's moving along at how I think it should.  It'll be interesting to see how the usage changes as the month progresses.  I was going to do some clean up with CCleaner, etc., but I'll hold off until after this month is over.  

Hmmm....can you explain to me how the data usage on Glasswire compares/relates to the data usage that Hughesnet shows?  Because the Hughesnet Usage gauge that I posted an hour ago shows 252 mb used for the month.  The most recent snap I took shows 275 mb.  And Glasswire shows a jump from 152 mb to 401 mb in the same time period.  

 

How are they related?  

 

image.png

GabeU
Distinguished Professor IV

@Sweetpea3829

 

The first Glasswire picture you posted is only showing data usage from Jan4th.  The second is showing data from the week of Dec 31st through Jan6th, so all of the data that has been used thus far in that time period is being shown, rather than just data from the 4th, like the first picture.  That's why the data amount spiked. 

 

To match the dates from when your HughesNet data cycle started, while on the week or month setting in Glasswire, click the dates on top and then click the date that your new HughesNet cycle started and then todays date (or today's date, then the date your new Hughes cycle started).  It should then show the data from that span of dates.  So, if your new HughesNet data cycle started on the 2nd, click the 2nd on Glasswire, then the 4th, and then compare the data usage shown in Glasswire to your data usage shown with HughesNet.  

 

Keep in mind, though, that Glasswire is ONLY tallying the data that your computer used, not data used by any other devices.   

 

As for the "External" setting, no, you should only need to set it once.  Maybe there's a glitch were it goes back to its default setting over the course of a few days.  


Ryzen 5 3400G | MSI B450M Pro-M2 MAX | 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4 3000 | XPG SX8200 Pro 512GB NVMe | Windows 10 Pro
GabeU
Distinguished Professor IV

Also, I should mention that Glasswire on your computer is only one part of helping to determine what's going on with the increased data usage in the second half of the cycle.  If the increased usage is shown to be on your computer then you know that's where it is, and you'll also be able to tell just what on the computer is using so much, but if that doesn't happen, yet you're still seeing an increase in data usage, you know that it's happening on something other than the computer.   


Ryzen 5 3400G | MSI B450M Pro-M2 MAX | 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4 3000 | XPG SX8200 Pro 512GB NVMe | Windows 10 Pro

That makes sense, regarding the Glasswire usage, lol. That would be a deeeerrrrp on my part.

Updated data usage. We were unable to use Hughesnet for most of the day on Friday...our system was down. I thought it was the snow/wind, but in the evening, I reset the system and it was fine.

I wasn't on much yesterday, either. We were at a swim meet most of the day.

***I guess I can't attach a picture if I'm mobile. I'll attach one later. But I still have 95%
GabeU
Distinguished Professor IV

@Sweetpea3829

 

Nah, not derp.  Everyone has to learn the ins and outs of Glasswire when they start using it, and you not noticing the dates is just learning.  

 

During the time I was an Heating and A/C tech I had a call from someone who had no heat.  I drove nearly an hour to get to their house at about 2AM and found that the thermostat was turned all the way down.  Now THAT'S a derp moment!  LOL.  


Ryzen 5 3400G | MSI B450M Pro-M2 MAX | 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4 3000 | XPG SX8200 Pro 512GB NVMe | Windows 10 Pro


@GabeU wrote:

@Sweetpea3829

 

Nah, not derp.  Everyone has to learn the ins and outs of Glasswire when they start using it, and you not noticing the dates is just learning.  

 

During the time I was an Heating and A/C tech I had a call from someone who had no heat.  I drove nearly an hour to get to their house at about 2AM and found that the thermostat was turned all the way down.  Now THAT'S a derp moment!  LOL.  


Oh goodness!  Smiley LOL  

 

Here are today's data stats (We weren't on much yesterday):

image.pngimage.pngimage.pngimage.png

 

GabeU
Distinguished Professor IV

@Sweetpea3829

 

Actually, from the looks of it, you're ahead of the game.  According to HughesNet's tally you've used about 646MB up to the time of those pics.  Glasswire is showing 1.1GB.  Either HughesNet's compression technology is doing a great job or you're sneaking another ISP in there for your computer to use once in a while and not telling us.  LOL.  😛   J/K.  But, seriously, what that shows is great.  

 

BTW, that screenshot with all of the bubbles on the graph screen corresponds with the Alerts header that has the 9+ on it.  The Alerts section monitors and gives a notification of when your computer connects programs and apps for the first time, and also when those same programs and apps change their version.  If you click on Alerts you'll see a lot of "First network activity" entries, and that is the listed programs and/or apps connecting to their servers and such (through HughesNet).  You'll see "Application info changed", and that is the programs and/or apps updating to their new versions.  The Alerts section can be a great tool to keep an eye on things and to see if something is connecting a lot more than it should be.  

 

You can, and really should, click on that Alerts section, take a look through it (I know that you may not know what a lot of the entries mean), and reset the counter by clicking on "Mark all as read", which is above all of the entries on the right hand side.  You don't have to do this, but it's a good idea as eventually all of those entries should calm down as you use the other programs and apps for the first time, and then you'll mostly see "Application info changed" entries.  Marking them all as read will reset that counter, and later, when you know there shouldn't be many entries each day or however long, you'll be able to tell if something is goofy by the number showing in the counter, like if all of a sudden one day there is a bunch of entries when there wasn't the day before.  The counter will give you a quick indication of that.  Also, programs or apps that you manually update/upgrade will again show as "First Network Activity" when they next connect.  Only programs/apps that auto update will show as "Application info changed".  An example of the latter would be after your browser auto updates, like Chrome, Firefox, etc. often do.  The bubbles on the graph screen give you a quick indication of all of this.  Every timer there is an entry it produces a bubble on the graph screen timeline.  

 

BTW...though I haven't read through it myself, if you want to learn a little more about Glasswire I found this...  https://www.glasswire.com/userguide/

 

Edit:  Also, I'm not quite sure what's going on with HughesNet's usage graph, as you clearly didn't use 523MB on the 7th.  Heck, it showed 407MB on the 4th.  Your total usage, according to the circle graph and numbered data, is less than that.  Maybe it means that's how much you used by then.  I don't know.  Something seems odd with that usage graph.  It's clear that your total data usage since your data reset is 530MB of Anytime Data and 116MB of Bonus Data, at least at the time of the latest picture (1/8 at 9:01AM). 


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My mistake, Gabe...

 

Yes, occasionally I turn on my cell phone's Wifi.  Usually, I'll turn it on when Straight Talk's mobile data gimps out on me at home, I need to look something up, and I don't feel like wandering around the house looking for a stronger signal (perils of rural country living).  

 

Occasionally the kids' tablets will be on for Wifi...when they're playing Prodigy Math, for example.  Or when I need to put a book on one of their Kindles.  So yeah, the Glassware data usage isn't going to line up completely with the Hughesnet.  

 

(Just to reestablish...the tablets are not updating because they can't because they are full.  The kids' Kindles only have books and a dictionary app, oh and a Card Droid app for times tables, so there's not a heck of a lot of updating there.  And my phone cannot update either, because it is full).  

 

So Glasswire isn't going to be perfect.  However...when the second half slide starts, I'll ensure that none of the extraneous devices are connected to Wifi, leaving only the laptop and printer connected.  

GabeU
Distinguished Professor IV

@Sweetpea3829

 

With regard to the computer that Glasswire is installed on, do you use it with your cell phone's WiFi sometimes (I know you can tether with some plans and cell phones), or is your computer's only internet connection through HughesNet?  

 

If it's the former, that can definitely skew your Glasswire tally in comparison to HughesNet's, but if it's the latter, and your computer's only internet connection is HughesNet's, its data comparison to HughesNet is very good.  


Ryzen 5 3400G | MSI B450M Pro-M2 MAX | 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4 3000 | XPG SX8200 Pro 512GB NVMe | Windows 10 Pro