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Why is Gen5 using way more data that Gen4 ever did?

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rsp87mam87
Freshman

Why is Gen5 using way more data that Gen4 ever did?

Hughes HT 2000W Gen5 since 10 April 2017

HP computer running Windows 10, IE, Chrome, Bing or Edge

Windows Defender and Malwarebytes 3.0

Glasswire download doesn’t show anything unusual.

 

My internet situation; one computer, two phones (a tablet and a laptop, for travel, that are only switched on for updates the day of departure and while running on bonus data) has not changed, and neither have my internet habits. I have password protected all access – so I’m pretty certain no one else is using my modem. I don't stream movies, or tv and only the occasional YouTube or other short video. I have turned off auto download of video on web pages and have also set Windows to a metered connection – neither of which had to be done before this modem and still in the 9 hour test of having the LAN unplugged, as suggested on the forum (see pictures), I used an entire gigabyte. Today I turned off the wifi on both phones and still dropped another Gigabyte.

 

On Thursday May 18, 2017 at 11:15 a.m., I just happened to check the Hughes Status Meter, that’s what got me started reading the forum for help and info on this problem, and I wrote down what the meter read: 55% with 22 days 12 hrs and 45 mins remaining. I was startled, I’ve never used that much data in a whole month let alone a few days unless I have a new computer to get running. As of 1pm this afternoon (May 21) I’m down to 47%. With more than 19 days remaining of the first real month of service with the HT 2000W I have somehow used more than half of my 10G of data. I am using way more data than I ever did on the old Hughes 1100 or the Hughes modem before that.

 

I find this particularly worrisome since I have to be out of town and wanted to leave a motion detecting security camera attached to wifi in my absence I therefore do not want to leave the modem unplugged – not that it seems to make a lot of difference.

 

A few stats from Hughes: ( If these stats are accurate I shouldn’t even have 2G missing from my monthly total. I just want the speed of a decent connection when I want to look at the internet or check my email.) One GB = 2 hours of video streaming, 300 photos uploaded, 200 streamed songs, 1,024 web pages loaded, or 2,000 emails sent or received

 

12:15 PM  19 May 201712:15 PM 19 May 20179:15 PM 19 May 20179:15 PM 19 May 20176:23 this morning 21 May 2017 when I turned my computer on - it is always off at night.6:23 this morning 21 May 2017 when I turned my computer on - it is always off at night.1:47 PM this afternoon 21 May 20171:47 PM this afternoon 21 May 2017

44 REPLIES 44
GlendaW
New Poster

I am having the exact same problem. I hope someone supplies an answer soon.

 

I upgraded from Gen4 with 10gb of data to Gen5 with 20gb of data.

 

When I had Gen4, I rarely ever used the entire 10gb. But immediately after upgrading to Gen5 with 20gb of data, even though my internet habits had not changed, data was leaking like crazy. Even though I have twice as much data as before, I have been forced to decrease the amount of time spent online, so I won't run out of data. What is going on?

Gwalk900
Honorary Alumnus

@rsp87mam87

 

Gen5 being faster than Gen4 would allow data to be used at a faster rate. If something ..... a background process for example .... were to be active, it would use data rather more quickly.

 

Looking at your posted pictures ....

We have no way to see what used the 5GB of data between your refill date and the remaining amount in the first screenshot of 5.2 GB remaining.

You second screenshot showed 5.1 GB remaining so there was a usage of perhaps as much as 100 MB between the two. I say as much as because the Status Meter display has a resolution of .1 GB (point one) so the meter will round up or down.

For the greatest accuracy you would need to use the myAccount Usage Meter that will resolve down to a single MB.

 

myAccount Usage.PNG

 

In the past the first step in tracking data loss was to perform a Modem Isolation Test:

RackMultipart20151130-6485-1yyx8cx-datahog2_inline (2).jpg

Following the above procedure would isolate the Modem (and your data) from any chance of "connection" as soon as the Ethernet cable between the subcribers device(s), be it a single directly connected computer or a user supplied Router.

The only activity .... the only "connection path" was broken upon the act of disconnecting the LAN cable.

 

This is no longer true with the HT2000w Modem due to its internal wireless capacity.

In order to close all connection paths when using a HT2000w you must also disable the "radios", both of them .... 2.4 Ghz and 5.0 Ghz.

Looking a little deeper .... Win10.

Enabling "metered" only works on wireless connections, not wired.

It only works on wireless connections that have been "declared" as metered.

Many computers and devices can connect by either 2.4 or 5.0 Ghz and have the capacity (if passkeys have been entered) to automaticly switch between the two wireless connections.

If only one of those connections has been declared as "metered" but not the other, the computer can switch to the other frequency and use data despite you thinking that it is "metered".

There is also another aspect to Win10 and that is its ability to "share" updates with other computers. This will be seen as an increase in "upload" data usage. Then we have the fact that Win10 shares "Telemetry" with Microsoft who then shares that data with its "partners".

 

It would have been helpful to have seen a GlassWire readout for the period but ... it would only show (very detailed) usage of only that device ...

 

There can be a number of "leaks" .... an overlooked or poorly secured wireless Guest Account

There can be issues if both 2.4 and 5.0 shared the same passkey as it allows "device roaming"

 

Further ... there are at least three differnet types of "off", only one of which is a true powered off state. Devices can awaken, perform scheduled tasks and then resume  ..... sleep.

 

I am not a big fan of Modem/Router/Wireless Router intergration.

Your Router holds the keys to your Networks Kingdom. Your Router, your rules, your network

 

My suggestion if you want to see and control all traffic across the network?

Disable all HT2000w functions

Install your own Router that has the capacity to track all data used (remember, the router is at the very center of your Network) both wired and wireless by date and by device.

That will provide a counterpoint to any Hughes usage meters.

 

I use an Asus RT-AC3100 and it allows tracking of all data through the Network. The 3100 is a little pricey but there are other less expensive Asus models that have the Traffic Analyzer function.

 

Asus screenshots:

 

Traffic per device per day:

Traffic 2.PNG

 

Statistics overall showing hours of occurance:

Statistic 1 snip.PNG

 

And finally traffic detail per device showing time of occurance and application name and data amount used:

Traffic 4.PNG

 

At this point you simply don't have a concrete handle on all potential connection paths.

 

 

 

 

Gwalk900 - thanks for the reply.  First - I tried to find the usage meter you spoke of by going to myhughes and all I get is:

UsageMeter.jpg

The same info I already have - and as you can see I am now down to 44%.  The only thing that has changed in my internet equation is the Gen5 modem - I never had any problem with the Gen 4 and both phones were on wifi at home.  So none of the "leak" talk is very helpful - unless the modem itself is leaking somehow.  I have turned off the wifi to my phones, I even uplugged the LAN cable again last night and still lost a Gigabyte.  "Off" to me means off - when I turn off my computer I turn it off - I can't sleep with it on.  I thought about what you advised last night and changing the passwords on each individual connection and disabled the 5.4Ghz and Guest connections when I got up this morning - or so they say - since,, as you point out, off doesn't always mean off in the internet world. And since then have lost another 2 Gigabytes - I lost one just checking in to this support page.  I am hemmoraging data and I don't even get to enjoy the internet anymore - I'm afaird to turn it on and I'm afraid to check my email.  You say that the metered connection is for wifi only - I've changed the computer over to wifi only. 

 

5:59 AM 22 May 20175:59 AM 22 May 2017Glasswire right nowGlasswire right now

You say the Glasswire shows only the one computer, but if nothing else is on is this not all there is to see? And it does not add up to Gigabytes of data.  And if something I don't know about is on somewhere - would it not have shown up in the data usage for the Gen4.  It seems more likely to me that someone at the other end of this modem has their thumb on the scale weighting it in their favor. 

GabeU
Distinguished Professor IV


@rsp87mam87 wrote:

Gwalk900 - thanks for the reply.  First - I tried to find the usage meter you spoke of by going to myhughes and all I get is:

UsageMeter.jpg

 


You have to sign in at myAccount, not click on "My Usage" on the upper right.  

 

http://my.hughesnet.com/myaccount

 

Sign in and go to Usage, like so....

 

Capture.JPG 

 

 

    

Gwalk900
Honorary Alumnus

You claimed to have used another 2GB  but your screenshots shows 4.7 GB and then 4.6 GB, that is only 100 MB (read as point one gb)

Due to the meter rounding to the nearest 100th GB that 100 MB indicated is likely somewhat over 50 MB.

 

I think you may be reading the meter wrong as your screenshots do not support  the usage you state.

 

You're right - I am starting to overstate the problem  - just the pressure of having to take this trip and being unsure of the wifi status while gone.  Anyway thanks for all the info - seems a shame I will probably have to buy another router.  Just wish someone could explain why with Gen4 everything was fine - while Gen5 has gobbled more than half my gigabytes a in a few days. 

For starters you do have a rather small data plan, That 10/50 means that you have 10,000 MB of Anytime data for the entire month. That equals only 333 MB per day network wide if you are to go the entire month with hitting FAP.

 

It looks like you are only 12 days into your usage period and GlassWire goes back 30 days so we should be able to see how much of the used 5 GB was used by the computer running GlassWire.

Use the following graphic as a guide to getting the needed info displayed:

Mine detailed snip.PNG

 

Go through the setting steps of 1 thru 5.

When setting the sliders in step 5 make sure the date range shown in the circled area at top center begins at the time of your last data refill and runs to the current date.

 

 

As I stated in my original post - I only just got the Glasswire when I saw it recommended on this forum - so I go back a couple of days - not a month. 

 

And it still doesn't answer the question - how is that I have had one Hughes modem or another for at least 15 years with 10G or less (can't remember what they started us out with back in the Direcway days)  - and have never had a problem with data running short - ever - unless I was fitting out a new computer.  And even then I would rather get up a 2AM than use my anytime data.  Gen 4 was 10G/50G -- I never had a problem with data.  Nothing on my end changed - except the Gen5. So why?  You can say all day that I have to have a data leak, but then the same data leak must have been here with the Gen4 and I didn't have a problem running short of data - so why? 

 

GabeU
Distinguished Professor IV

@rsp87mam87

 

In addtion to the instructions already laid out by @Gwalk900 for Glasswire, it would be a good idea to set the options to "Incoming & Outgoing" and "External."  This way it will only measure the data being used by the internet, not data being transfered back and forth internally.  

 

You can find the options settings to the upper right of the circle graph when you are viewing the "Usage" tab.  

 

And I do understand that you have just installed Glasswire, but this will help for when you rely on it more as time goes on.  

 

Capture.JPG

Yes, I want to know the answer, myself. My excessive data usage did not begin until I upgraded to Gen5. When I was on Gen4, I only had 10gb of data per month and rarely ever reached that. But suddenly after upgrading to Gen5, data gets gobbled up like crazy.

 

I use a Mac, and already had all my apps set to "manual update" so I could control data use, and had turned off iCloud as well. On my iphone, background refresh is turned off, and iCloud is deactivated as well. I have my browser preferences set so that video does not automatically play. Also, turned off telemetrics on both computer and phone to keep my applications from phoning home to the mother ship. And, I do not stay connected to the internet all the time. I have a wifi router, and turn wifi off when not sitting at my computer. No data leakage occurs when wifi is turned off.

 

The one curious thing I did notice, when using Activity Monitor to figure out which applications were hogging the data: when I have my antivirus software turned on, simply having a web page open in the browser uses data at a rate of 1mb per minute. Actively browsing websites uses data at a much faster rate. When I turn off antiviris software, the data use drops off drastically. I have tried 3 different antivirus programs (Eset Cybersecurity, Bitdefender, and Kaspersky) with the same result. I had to take the step of keeping antivirus turned off most of the time, only activating it once every few days (just long enough to update the virus definitions and run a quick scan) then immediately turning it off again. BUT - this did not occur when I was on Gen4. I hate to keep turning my antivirus software off, but for now that's the only thing that's stopping the bleeding. I know the software isn't updating itself because I already set updates to "manual".

Gwalk900
Honorary Alumnus

@rsp87mam87

 

You stated:

"And it still doesn't answer the question - how is that I have had one Hughes modem or another for at least 15 years with 10G or less (can't remember what they started us out with back in the Direcway days)  - and have never had a problem with data running short - ever -"

 

The same algorithms that count/report Gen4 usage are used on your Gen5 system.

Your Gen5 system has the potential for greater speeds, thus data can be consumed faster.

I guess I was mistaken is using the word "leak" .... unidentified usage is more to the point. You have data used that you can't account for.

Data is used by hardware and software.

If you have a failing modem or transmitter excess data can be used in the act of re-transmissions or as stated earlier, in a modem firmware update/fallback loop.

The procedure is to run the modem isolation test as I earlier posted to see if data is used during your LAN disconnect time. The only fly in the ointment is that you are also going to have to disable the HT2000w's wireless radios ... both of them ... 2.4 & 5.0 Ghz.

If that is not done, then the modem is not totally isolated.

The other thing that needs to be done is to ask @Liz to run remote diagnostics on your system to rule in or out issues realed to outdoor hardware and coax/connector issues.

 

 

 

You stated:

 "Nothing on my end changed - except the Gen5. So why?  You can say all day that I have to have a data leak, but then the same data leak must have been here with the Gen4 and I didn't have a problem running short of data - so why?"

 

Nothing on your end that you know of  has changed.

Computers, operating systems and the Internet are in a constant state of change ....

>You have Win10<

This is not good. Win10 gives somewhere between very little and no control over a number of items. The Win10 Creators Update is being rolled out.

Updates in general are now being sent out as "roll-ups" ... you get them all. Many updates will undo settings that you had made to the OS in the past.

Win10 has some very bad habits:

It shares "Telemitry" with Microsoft. This uses your data in the form of uploads.

Microsoft the shares that information it collected with selected 'partners" who then load up your browser with tailored advertising.

Win10 has the nasty habit of sharing updates with other computers both on your LAN and also on your WAN. That function needs to be disabled ... repeatedly. Newly installed updates cause some key settings to revert to their default values.

 

Websites change. A site that you have used for years can suddenly change the way data is loaded.

You have a poor choice of browsers going ... IE, Edge? (and Bing is search engine). You can make SOME changes but others require the addition of browser extentions to stop some things. Ad Block Plus to limit the number of Ads being loaded, Auto-Start of videos as you mentioned but the BIG ONE is the NASTY known as HTML5 Pre-fetch. That one will eat your cheese. It is the background loading of video content in a webpage that does not start ... but it is downloaded "just in case" you wish to use it. How nice.

 

Driver changes. If your computer has Nvidia graphics hardware your Nivdia driver may have been updated. It has been stated that the latest drivers "call home" with your personal data. More data used and used by a background process.

 

There also seems to be an issue understanding how to use the four usage meters supplied by Hughes.

I can understand you not knowing and questioning the usage between your refill (10 GB) and your first posted screenshot showing 5.2 GB remaining  for a net usage of 4.8 GB to that point.

I do have have to say you kind of confused me there when you adamantly stated:

 

"And since then have lost another 2 Gigabytes - I lost one just checking in to this support page.  I am hemmoraging data and I don't even get to enjoy the internet anymore - I'm afaird to turn it on and I'm afraid to check my email."

 

Dispite the fact that I pointed out the the amounts were not in the GB size range but were instead in the .1 (point one .... 100 MB) and the .2 (point two ... 200 MB) range and that meter is subject to roll up/down differences.

 

You don't seem very willing to follow a step-by-step linear process that takes into account all potential connection paths.

You don't seem willing to embrace the fact that a single computer has 65,536 com ports any of which can connect and therefore use data as a background process.

You don't seem willing to gather supporting data as to just what is using your data choosing instead to believe "Gen5 did it".

Hughes as a ISP is obligated to make a contracted amount of data available to your to the modems LAN port. How you spend that data is up to you. They do not provide computer repair services.

 

I have been down this road many times before and tracking usage can be a very time consuming and labor intensive operation both for you as well as myself.

You seem to "know" what it is that is using your data. Without having an open mind further input is futile.

See if @Liz will rule out modem/TRIA issues.

 

I'm done with this topic.

 

maratsade
Distinguished Professor IV

I haven't noticed any change in the rate at which the data is being used. Feels like the same pace as before. The antivirus software works in the background and sometimes downloads stuff, but it doesn't use an inordinate amount of data.  Windows 10 updates are under 4 GB, so that doesn't eat much data either.  I have both Windows and Mac machines, as well as other devices, so all of those are using data all the time while running background processes, downloading bits of stuff here and there, and whatnot, but the rate remains the same.  Maybe something changed on your end and you haven't noticed it yet.  When you turn on your antivirus software, it may be downloading things it needs to update itself, hence the data usage. Or it could be something else that changed when the new system was installed. 

GabeU
Distinguished Professor IV

As I stated on a different thread, I have noticed that I seem to be using a bit more data with Gen5, but it's not so much that it's causing me much concern.  Perhaps 10% more, at most.  And, as stated, it could be due to a number of things.  I think it's possible that the compression technology works a little differently with Gen5 compared to Gen4, but, in the end, I'm still not being charged by Hughesnet for more data than I am actually using, as is evidenced by my close scrutiny of Glasswire's tally vs Hughesnet's tally.  I don't use my internet for anything other than my computers, so I am able to compare the data usage directly.  The addition of other devices would make that more difficult.    

maratsade
Distinguished Professor IV

Your method is so much more scientific than mine, Gabe! 🙂

GabeU
Distinguished Professor IV

@maratsade

 

And I was thinking about signing up for Netflix in the not so distant future so I can watch an occasional old TV show or movie using the built in Netflix app on my TV.  That's going to open up a whole new can of worms!!!!  🙂

maratsade
Distinguished Professor IV


@GabeU wrote:

@maratsade

 

And I was thinking about signing up for Netflix in the not so distant future so I can watch an occasional old TV show or movie using the built in Netflix app on my TV.  That's going to open up a whole new can of worms!!!!  🙂


Won't the app try to access the network to update itself?  I have several apps on my DVD/Blu-ray player but I avoid them like the plague. 

 

You'll have to go fishing, what with all them worms. 🙂

GabeU
Distinguished Professor IV


@maratsade wrote:


Won't the app try to access the network to update itself?  I have several apps on my DVD/Blu-ray player but I avoid them like the plague. 


It may, but I suspect that the update won't be that large.  I've had the TV connected a few times and I performed a manual software update each time I did so.  It didn't ask me to, but I figured since I had it connected I would do it, anyway.  

We're having the same problem.  Data is getting gobbled so fast that we went over the limit 2 months in a row despite having 20 GBs vs 10 GBs and we never stream anything.

 

Totally strange.  We use Windows Defender on Windows 10.

It's gotten so I have to be more careful with using the internet with Gen 5 than I did with Gen 4.


@rsp87mam87 wrote:

...  how is that I have had one Hughes modem or another for at least 15 years with 10G or less (can't remember what they started us out with back in the Direcway days)  - and have never had a problem with data running short - ever - unless I was fitting out a new computer.  And even then I would rather get up a 2AM than use my anytime data.  Gen 4 was 10G/50G -- I never had a problem with data.  Nothing on my end changed - except the Gen5. So why?  You can say all day that I have to have a data leak, but then the same data leak must have been here with the Gen4 and I didn't have a problem running short of data - so why? 

 

Ever since I've started asking the very question above all I ever see is evasive answers that never actually address the question.  But the answer is simple:  Because that's how HughesNet set it up.

Okay, fair enough.  But what is NOT fair is that we, the consumer, can't just dump HughesNet because we're locked into big-penalty contracts.  Plus rural users don't always have any other options.  What I see here is HughesNet taking advantage of consumers that can't do a thing about it.  Or maybe not. Perhaps it is time to look into filing federal consumer complaints (note that HughesNet does not allow me to name that federal agency or use its initials in a post here -- that alone is food for thought).  Contact your elected officials.   

 

Also, every state has enacted consumer protection statutes, which are modeled afterthe Federal Trade Commission Act. This allows state attorneys, along with general and private consumers, to commence law suits over false ordeceptive advertisements, or other unfair and injurious consumer practices.  

C0RR0SIVE
Associate Professor

@lifstrand

Let me stop you right there before you go much further.  This is a Hughesnet operated site, it's a place to come to get assistance, not a place to threaten legal action against anyone, nor is it a place to encourage others to do so.  If you have contacted the F.C.C., FBI, CIA, NSA, F.T.C., SAG or any other three letter acronym, then your issues will be handled by the same group that controls this community with in the time frames alloted by the contacted agency.

If you want help, start a new topic and outline any troubleshooting you have done there.