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receiving less than 17 percent of my contracted speed

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New Poster

receiving less than 17 percent of my contracted speed

Look I have every right to voice my concerns. I can do it here or every satellite forum available.  I simply want what I'm paying for. If Hugesnet legitimately assists with my complaint then I no longer have a complaint. But I'm not going to pay what I pay every month and receive less than 17 percent of my contracted speed. Don't you agree with my logic. If not please explain your rational for not agreeing. 

41 REPLIES
Teaching Assistant

Re: Can't Download from Microsoft

Guess what, you are getting what you're paying for, you agreed to the Fair Access Policy, the Acceptable Use Policy, the Subscriber Agreement, and Network Managements Practices.  

Your "contracted speed" is an upto xxMbps.  There is, and was no set minimum.

Congestion =/= throttling.  Learn the difference.

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Teaching Assistant

Re: Can't Download from Microsoft

Double post? -.-

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New Poster

Re: Can't Download from Microsoft

The Wikipedia definition of throttling is the intentional slowing of internet service by an ISP. On a broader level, the Internet service provider may use bandwidth throttling to help reduce a users usage of bandwidth that is supplied to the network. (sound familiar) Wikipedia goes on to say " It is a reactive measure employed in communication networks to regulate network traffic and minimize bandwidth congestion."

 

Based on this definition I hope you now learned the difference.  Also, I understand you have no answer to what I'm advocating, if you did you would provide a thought-out response instead of using belligerence.  Your approach simply won't work for me and the tone of your response surely won't cause me to shy away.  If I can't get my complaint resolved here in a respectful manner then I'll take my thoughts concerning over capacity and how it may ultimately effect Gen5 bandwidth to every satellite forum and other forums that are related.  Quite frankly I don't think those considering Gen5 would be impressed by the fair use policy and other agreements you aforementioned if they believe in time that Gen5 may suffer the same fate as Gen4 with respect to overbooking and its effect on bandwidth speed. So as I see it I can get help now from a "true" moderator in solving my problem or a moderator could ban my use of the forum for expressing the truth without  being disrespectful to anyone. I prefer the first option but I'm not going to drop the issue until I get resolution either here or elsewhere.  Again throttling in any form is illegal. 

Teaching Assistant

Re: Can't Download from Microsoft

Actually, the reason I don't create a detailed response is because you are continuously hijacking other peoples topics, and I have far more important things to do than to argue with someone and would like to get some sleep in the next 6 hours.

Throttling = Setting a user or specific group of users network speed based upon various factors in a deliberate manor.  A throttled user will typically see only a peak speed until the factor is removed.  For example, when a user has exhausted their data, the system immediately places the user into a low speed state until their quota has reset.

Congestion = Occurs when a node is trying to handle more data than what it was designed to handle, the symptoms of this can vary from packet loss, to decreased speeds for all data streams, to new connections being ignored by the node.

If you want to keep arguing, consider this.  These units can handle 50Mbps or more if the Jupiter system allowed it, based upon your argument, and technicalities, we are always throttled no matter what, even when getting the plan speeds and above, upto the maximum speed a unit can process.

Use what ever word you want, for the wrong thing, the facts aren't going to change.  Hughesnet isn't throttling you, and even if they was throttling you, there's nothing you could really do about it with out, ya know, building a case showing that they throttled you to a lower speed while not reaching your quota even when congestion isn't present.



skybox wrote:

 Again throttling in any form is illegal. 


Uhh, maybe in your fantasy world? One ISP can't throttle traffic coming from another ISP, but they can certainly throttle traffic of their own users should the network require it due to agreed upon circumstances, such as data caps.  Also, if you was planning on stating Net Neutrality, no, that doesn't apply here, the F.C.C. has stated numerous times that certain wireless internet services would be exempt from some components of Net Neutrality.

Lets pull from your favorite "fact" website:

  • No Blocking: broadband providers may not block access to legal content, applications, services, or non-harmful devices.
    (Nope, Hughes doesn't intentionally block anything legal)
  • No Throttling: broadband providers may not impair or degrade lawful Internet traffic on the basis of content, applications, services, or non-harmful devices.
    (Nope, they aren't treating any traffic or services different from one another, all traffic is treated fairly)
  • No Paid Prioritization: broadband providers may not favor some lawful Internet traffic over other lawful traffic in exchange for consideration of any kind—in other words, no "fast lanes." This rule also bans ISPs from prioritizing content and services of their affiliates. 
    (Nope, this doesn't apply to you)

Now, I am going to sleep, have way too much work to do than be baited by trolls, if you have issues with your service and terms and conditions that you must accept to use the service, I suggest going to another ISP, whom in all circumstances, will have the same policies.

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Moderator
Moderator

Re: Can't Download from Microsoft

Good morning skybox,

 

Welcome to the community and thank you for posting.  We'd like to help address your speed concerns. To get started, please follow the steps here to set up a testmy.net account and run speed tests so that we get a proper evaluation of your system performance:

http://customer.kb.hughesnet.com/Pages/7001.aspx

Most important points:
-do the tests while directly connected to the HughesNet modem
-use the 12MB test file
-space each test at least 5 minutes apart
-post your results URL here, it may look something like http://testmy.net/quickstats/[yourusername]

Looking forward to hearing back from you.

 

Thanks,
Liz

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New Poster

Re: Can't Download from Microsoft

Liz,

 

Been there done that on multiple occassions, including working with your techs checking my equipment - everything checks out. Here are some steps I took on my own which has caused me to think the way I do with respect to throttling. First, I run the speed test. Most times I'm within 60 to 70 percent of my allotted speed.  Then I immediately start to Stream in SD.For the first 5 minutes or so everything works adequately (even though I'm only using 17 pecent of 15 Mbps) Then the resolution drops and buffering begins. I tried this on five occassions with the same results. Liz I spent a carrer in the Army managing combat networks. I understand multiplexing and network management.  The only way Hugesnet is going to satisfy me is to give me at leat 50 percent of my allotted speed throughout the day. I understand that Hugesnet has overbooked it satellite capacity and the resulting congestion. But to dilute my data speed to less than 17 percent throught the entire day and evening because of its self-imposed congestion is unthical to say the least.

Thanks

New Poster

Re: Can't Download from Microsoft

Actually, the reason I don't create a detailed response is because you are continuously hijacking other peoples topics, and I have far more important things to do than to argue with someone and would like to get some sleep in the next 6 hours.

 

Actually the only topics I intervened are those who complain about their data speeds. A topic that fits appropriately with my complaint – throttled data.

Throttling = Setting a user or specific group of users network speed based upon various factors in a deliberate manor.  A throttled user will typically see only a peak speed until the factor is removed.  For example, when a user has exhausted their data, the system immediately places the user into a low speed state until their quota has reset.

 

You folks keep referring to throttling only happening when one reaches their data cap. I would be thrilled if I could reach my data cap of 50G each month. But I don’t think it’s possible when the majority of the time I’m allotted less than 17 percent of my top contracted speed.

Congestion = Occurs when a node is trying to handle more data than what it was designed to handle, the symptoms of this can vary from packet loss, to decreased speeds for all data streams, to new connections being ignored by the node.

 

You forgot to add over-booking the satellite.  Look I get it, Hugesnet is a business and needs new sources of revenue to stay relevant.  But when expected service degrades significantly above a certain threshold of customers at what point do the consumers’ of Hugesnet services say enough? For me less than 17 percent of my allotted speed far exceeds my personal threshold of tolerance. Hence, why I’m now going to take a stand.  I understand and accept some throttling during busy times as long as it’s temporary and at least allows me to Stream a measly 2 Mbps necessary for Standard Definition (SD).   I don’t think a continual 2 Mbps out of my contracted 25 Mbps is unreasonable do you? But unfortunately, the throttling is now prevalent to a point where one can only deduce that Hugesnet has not only over-extended its satellite capacity but is also destroying its loyal customers’ goodwill.

If you want to keep arguing, consider this.  These units can handle 50Mbps or more if the Jupiter system allowed it, based upon your argument, and technicalities, we are always throttled no matter what, even when getting the plan speeds and above, upto the maximum speed a unit can process.

 

I don’t understand this comment, could you elaborate? Is there some technical/legal issue that constrains the Jupiter system, other than over-booking?

Use what ever word you want, for the wrong thing, the facts aren't going to change.  Hughesnet isn't throttling you, and even if they was throttling you, there's nothing you could really do about it with out, ya know, building a case showing that they throttled you to a lower speed while not reaching your quota even when congestion isn't present.

 

Based on this comment you’re traversing in an area where you’re showing your inexperience.  Law happens to be an area that I am familiar with.  Don’t ever say never concerning this topic. We’re not just talking about statues and policy strictly dealing with definitions in the network world, there are numerous statutes from the consumer protection and contract-law world also, both at the federal and state levels. If Hugesnet wasn’t concerned about the whole scope of law related to their business practices, then they wouldn’t push its arbitration clause on new consumers.  Fortunately I opted out.  

skybox wrote:

 Again throttling in any form is illegal. 

Uhh, maybe in your fantasy world? One ISP can't throttle traffic coming from another ISP, but they can certainly throttle traffic of their own users should the network require it due to agreed upon circumstances, such as data caps.  Also, if you was planning on stating Net Neutrality, no, that doesn't apply here, the F.C.C. has stated numerous times that certain wireless internet services would be exempt from some components of Net Neutrality.

Lets pull from your favorite "fact" website:

  • No Blocking: broadband providers may not block access to legal content, applications, services, or non-harmful devices.
    (Nope, Hughes doesn't intentionally block anything legal)
  • No Throttling: broadband providers may not impair or degrade lawful Internet traffic on the basis of content, applications, services, or non-harmful devices.
    (Nope, they aren't treating any traffic or services different from one another, all traffic is treated fairly)
  • No Paid Prioritization: broadband providers may not favor some lawful Internet traffic over other lawful traffic in exchange for consideration of any kind—in other words, no "fast lanes." This rule also bans ISPs from prioritizing content and services of their affiliates. 
    (Nope, this doesn't apply to you)

See this is where you and I greatly differ. I think a case could be made on this issue.  If not legally than surely in the court of public opinion.  I think if people understood that the reason they can’t even get a small portion of their “paid for” bandwidth is because of greed (over selling capacity) it would take hold and force some changes.  Properly explained across the internet spectrum consisting of multiple ISP forums, I’m confident it will take on a life of its own - want to bet?

 

Now, I am going to sleep, have way too much work to do than be baited by trolls, if you have issues with your service and terms and conditions that you must accept to use the service, I suggest going to another ISP, whom in all circumstances, will have the same policies.

 

See here you go again, getting confrontational. OK first, the reason most land-based ISP don’t have this problem is because they’re not greedy enough to stifle their speeds to a level where their consumers can’t even stream in SD.  Yes some may throttle but never to the level or length of Hugesnet.  Even wireless still allow for enough speed (LTE) to Stream at lower but acceptable levels during prime time.  Only Hugesnet has taken advantage of the F.C.C rules to a point where they’re self-imposed congestion forces throttling to such low levels for such long length of times. I don’t believe anyone has ever approached throttling from the stand-point of knowing what the threshold capacity of a satellite is and understanding based on empirical knowledge that data speeds will fall to significant levels beyond a certain threshold, yet they continue to oversell the satellite.  Most ISPs such as Verizon, ATT, etc. throttle users when they reach their data cap. Hugesnet, however, throttles everyone at all hours - a significant difference. By the way, calling a loyal customer who pays his bills a troll for asking tough questions about his service reeks of the same arrogance as those who respond to tough questions by telling them to go elsewhere. All I’m asking is that I get my complaint addressed in a manner that is common-sense oriented. That is, at least getting 20 percent of my speed so I can Stream in SD. Is this unreasonable?  

 

Advanced Tutor

Re: Can't Download from Microsoft

You just seem to have issues posted all over the place.

From the tone of your posts I'm not sure that you understand just what satellite Internet is.

Satellite Internet is a connection type of last resort. It is not  the equal of, or in competition with, any ground or cellular based systems.

You are not going to get the same 'steadyness' or consistent throughput as found in ground based systems.

You can yell until you turn blue and/or complain to as many three letter agencies as you please but it will not change the laws of physics or the fact that a satellite connection is a shared resource. Shared on several levels.

 

Throttling:

To me (13+ year sat user) Throttling is a deliberate act to limit speeds .... and yes, Hughes does throttle .. under certain conditions:

#1: According to platform: Spaceway-3 users have a top "up to" speed of 5 Mbps

#2: According to plan level with "up to" speeds of 10, 15 and now in the case of Gen5 (ES19) 25 Mbps.

#3: When a user has depleted their data allowance and is subject to the FAP rules.

and speeds as related to video data can be modified due to the settings you have selected for the Video Data Saver function.

VDS.PNG

 

Beyond that you keep talking about 'greed' and 'oversold' as if you have something more going on other than plain guesswork.

In the case of Gen4 (HT1100 modem) it is likely that the satellite is very heavily tasked but you have to keep in mind that ES17 has 60 spot beams. It is possible for one beam to be overloaded either at peak times or across the board.

I have Gen4 service, the Ultra plan ... up to ... 15 Mbps and I usually have speeds in the area of 21 to 27 Mbps. Proof that the entire satellite is not 'oversold' or being throttled.

Here is a Beam Map:

Gateway Map 12 snip.png

Despite what you think  know, not all speed issues have the same root cause. That brings us to troubleshooting and procedures.

Even if you have ran speeds in the past, users are directed to do so again when posting in the Community.

The Forum Mods are at the corporate level and have access to Engineering. The Engineers will need hard data to assess you issue.

It may indeed come down to your beam/gateway being overloaded. There are some options that Engineering has that address the issue ... if in the end 'overload' is at the root then you have two choices ... three really:

#1: Upgrade to Gen5

#2: Wait for more of your fellow users to migrate from ES17 to ES19 thereby freeing up capacity

#3:Cancel your service.

 

There are other aspects of course including 'leaks' in your network that consume sorely needed bandwidth while you are attempting high data demand activity but somehow I think you would be adverse to looking at these items.

Bottom line, satellite is shared resource, there is no amount of complaining that 'this ain't cable' is going to turn it into cable.

Do the speed tests, post the results ... the Mods will tell you if there is nothing more that can be done for you short of options 1,2 or 3 I posted above.

 

 

 

Advanced Tutor

Re: Can't Download from Microsoft


skybox wrote:
The only way Hugesnet is going to satisfy me is to give me at leat 50 percent of my allotted speed throughout the day. I understand that Hugesnet has overbooked it satellite capacity and the resulting congestion.

So what you're basically asking for is priority over other users on your beam/gateway using the system at the same time as you?

 

The satellite and gateway automatically adjust to provide as much speed as possible to each user at any point in time depending on the load. You would like that bypassed just for you at the expense of others?

 

HughesNet's policy has been to provide service to all who need and request it. Yes, it has and does result in overloading. Why they've got a new Gen5 satellite up and running and trying to get as many customers as possible to move to it.

 

My speed during nightly prime time has been pretty dismal for awhile now but I've chosen to wait it out and see if things improve as more load is taken off Jupiter 1. Yes my choice but I also have not asked for any special treatment. I also understand satellite after working with it in the military.

 

I'm curious what your speed is outside of peak usage hours. If still very bad then that is a different story.

 

PS: The "contracted speed" is "up to", not guaranteed. Only stating that legal fact, not trying to be smart.