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receiving less than 17 percent of my contracted speed

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skybox
Sophomore

receiving less than 17 percent of my contracted speed

Look I have every right to voice my concerns. I can do it here or every satellite forum available.  I simply want what I'm paying for. If Hugesnet legitimately assists with my complaint then I no longer have a complaint. But I'm not going to pay what I pay every month and receive less than 17 percent of my contracted speed. Don't you agree with my logic. If not please explain your rational for not agreeing. 

53 REPLIES 53
C0RR0SIVE
Associate Professor

Guess what, you are getting what you're paying for, you agreed to the Fair Access Policy, the Acceptable Use Policy, the Subscriber Agreement, and Network Managements Practices.  

Your "contracted speed" is an upto xxMbps.  There is, and was no set minimum.

Congestion =/= throttling.  Learn the difference.

The Wikipedia definition of throttling is the intentional slowing of internet service by an ISP. On a broader level, the Internet service provider may use bandwidth throttling to help reduce a users usage of bandwidth that is supplied to the network. (sound familiar) Wikipedia goes on to say " It is a reactive measure employed in communication networks to regulate network traffic and minimize bandwidth congestion."

 

Based on this definition I hope you now learned the difference.  Also, I understand you have no answer to what I'm advocating, if you did you would provide a thought-out response instead of using belligerence.  Your approach simply won't work for me and the tone of your response surely won't cause me to shy away.  If I can't get my complaint resolved here in a respectful manner then I'll take my thoughts concerning over capacity and how it may ultimately effect Gen5 bandwidth to every satellite forum and other forums that are related.  Quite frankly I don't think those considering Gen5 would be impressed by the fair use policy and other agreements you aforementioned if they believe in time that Gen5 may suffer the same fate as Gen4 with respect to overbooking and its effect on bandwidth speed. So as I see it I can get help now from a "true" moderator in solving my problem or a moderator could ban my use of the forum for expressing the truth without  being disrespectful to anyone. I prefer the first option but I'm not going to drop the issue until I get resolution either here or elsewhere.  Again throttling in any form is illegal. 

C0RR0SIVE
Associate Professor

Actually, the reason I don't create a detailed response is because you are continuously hijacking other peoples topics, and I have far more important things to do than to argue with someone and would like to get some sleep in the next 6 hours.

Throttling = Setting a user or specific group of users network speed based upon various factors in a deliberate manor.  A throttled user will typically see only a peak speed until the factor is removed.  For example, when a user has exhausted their data, the system immediately places the user into a low speed state until their quota has reset.

Congestion = Occurs when a node is trying to handle more data than what it was designed to handle, the symptoms of this can vary from packet loss, to decreased speeds for all data streams, to new connections being ignored by the node.

If you want to keep arguing, consider this.  These units can handle 50Mbps or more if the Jupiter system allowed it, based upon your argument, and technicalities, we are always throttled no matter what, even when getting the plan speeds and above, upto the maximum speed a unit can process.

Use what ever word you want, for the wrong thing, the facts aren't going to change.  Hughesnet isn't throttling you, and even if they was throttling you, there's nothing you could really do about it with out, ya know, building a case showing that they throttled you to a lower speed while not reaching your quota even when congestion isn't present.



@skybox wrote:

 Again throttling in any form is illegal. 


Uhh, maybe in your fantasy world? One ISP can't throttle traffic coming from another ISP, but they can certainly throttle traffic of their own users should the network require it due to agreed upon circumstances, such as data caps.  Also, if you was planning on stating Net Neutrality, no, that doesn't apply here, the F.C.C. has stated numerous times that certain wireless internet services would be exempt from some components of Net Neutrality.

Lets pull from your favorite "fact" website:

  • No Blocking: broadband providers may not block access to legal content, applications, services, or non-harmful devices.
    (Nope, Hughes doesn't intentionally block anything legal)
  • No Throttling: broadband providers may not impair or degrade lawful Internet traffic on the basis of content, applications, services, or non-harmful devices.
    (Nope, they aren't treating any traffic or services different from one another, all traffic is treated fairly)
  • No Paid Prioritization: broadband providers may not favor some lawful Internet traffic over other lawful traffic in exchange for consideration of any kind—in other words, no "fast lanes." This rule also bans ISPs from prioritizing content and services of their affiliates. 
    (Nope, this doesn't apply to you)

Now, I am going to sleep, have way too much work to do than be baited by trolls, if you have issues with your service and terms and conditions that you must accept to use the service, I suggest going to another ISP, whom in all circumstances, will have the same policies.

Actually, the reason I don't create a detailed response is because you are continuously hijacking other peoples topics, and I have far more important things to do than to argue with someone and would like to get some sleep in the next 6 hours.

 

Actually the only topics I intervened are those who complain about their data speeds. A topic that fits appropriately with my complaint – throttled data.

Throttling = Setting a user or specific group of users network speed based upon various factors in a deliberate manor.  A throttled user will typically see only a peak speed until the factor is removed.  For example, when a user has exhausted their data, the system immediately places the user into a low speed state until their quota has reset.

 

You folks keep referring to throttling only happening when one reaches their data cap. I would be thrilled if I could reach my data cap of 50G each month. But I don’t think it’s possible when the majority of the time I’m allotted less than 17 percent of my top contracted speed.

Congestion = Occurs when a node is trying to handle more data than what it was designed to handle, the symptoms of this can vary from packet loss, to decreased speeds for all data streams, to new connections being ignored by the node.

 

You forgot to add over-booking the satellite.  Look I get it, Hugesnet is a business and needs new sources of revenue to stay relevant.  But when expected service degrades significantly above a certain threshold of customers at what point do the consumers’ of Hugesnet services say enough? For me less than 17 percent of my allotted speed far exceeds my personal threshold of tolerance. Hence, why I’m now going to take a stand.  I understand and accept some throttling during busy times as long as it’s temporary and at least allows me to Stream a measly 2 Mbps necessary for Standard Definition (SD).   I don’t think a continual 2 Mbps out of my contracted 25 Mbps is unreasonable do you? But unfortunately, the throttling is now prevalent to a point where one can only deduce that Hugesnet has not only over-extended its satellite capacity but is also destroying its loyal customers’ goodwill.

If you want to keep arguing, consider this.  These units can handle 50Mbps or more if the Jupiter system allowed it, based upon your argument, and technicalities, we are always throttled no matter what, even when getting the plan speeds and above, upto the maximum speed a unit can process.

 

I don’t understand this comment, could you elaborate? Is there some technical/legal issue that constrains the Jupiter system, other than over-booking?

Use what ever word you want, for the wrong thing, the facts aren't going to change.  Hughesnet isn't throttling you, and even if they was throttling you, there's nothing you could really do about it with out, ya know, building a case showing that they throttled you to a lower speed while not reaching your quota even when congestion isn't present.

 

Based on this comment you’re traversing in an area where you’re showing your inexperience.  Law happens to be an area that I am familiar with.  Don’t ever say never concerning this topic. We’re not just talking about statues and policy strictly dealing with definitions in the network world, there are numerous statutes from the consumer protection and contract-law world also, both at the federal and state levels. If Hugesnet wasn’t concerned about the whole scope of law related to their business practices, then they wouldn’t push its arbitration clause on new consumers.  Fortunately I opted out.  

skybox wrote:

 Again throttling in any form is illegal. 

Uhh, maybe in your fantasy world? One ISP can't throttle traffic coming from another ISP, but they can certainly throttle traffic of their own users should the network require it due to agreed upon circumstances, such as data caps.  Also, if you was planning on stating Net Neutrality, no, that doesn't apply here, the F.C.C. has stated numerous times that certain wireless internet services would be exempt from some components of Net Neutrality.

Lets pull from your favorite "fact" website:

  • No Blocking: broadband providers may not block access to legal content, applications, services, or non-harmful devices.
    (Nope, Hughes doesn't intentionally block anything legal)
  • No Throttling: broadband providers may not impair or degrade lawful Internet traffic on the basis of content, applications, services, or non-harmful devices.
    (Nope, they aren't treating any traffic or services different from one another, all traffic is treated fairly)
  • No Paid Prioritization: broadband providers may not favor some lawful Internet traffic over other lawful traffic in exchange for consideration of any kind—in other words, no "fast lanes." This rule also bans ISPs from prioritizing content and services of their affiliates. 
    (Nope, this doesn't apply to you)

See this is where you and I greatly differ. I think a case could be made on this issue.  If not legally than surely in the court of public opinion.  I think if people understood that the reason they can’t even get a small portion of their “paid for” bandwidth is because of greed (over selling capacity) it would take hold and force some changes.  Properly explained across the internet spectrum consisting of multiple ISP forums, I’m confident it will take on a life of its own - want to bet?

 

Now, I am going to sleep, have way too much work to do than be baited by trolls, if you have issues with your service and terms and conditions that you must accept to use the service, I suggest going to another ISP, whom in all circumstances, will have the same policies.

 

See here you go again, getting confrontational. OK first, the reason most land-based ISP don’t have this problem is because they’re not greedy enough to stifle their speeds to a level where their consumers can’t even stream in SD.  Yes some may throttle but never to the level or length of Hugesnet.  Even wireless still allow for enough speed (LTE) to Stream at lower but acceptable levels during prime time.  Only Hugesnet has taken advantage of the F.C.C rules to a point where they’re self-imposed congestion forces throttling to such low levels for such long length of times. I don’t believe anyone has ever approached throttling from the stand-point of knowing what the threshold capacity of a satellite is and understanding based on empirical knowledge that data speeds will fall to significant levels beyond a certain threshold, yet they continue to oversell the satellite.  Most ISPs such as Verizon, ATT, etc. throttle users when they reach their data cap. Hugesnet, however, throttles everyone at all hours - a significant difference. By the way, calling a loyal customer who pays his bills a troll for asking tough questions about his service reeks of the same arrogance as those who respond to tough questions by telling them to go elsewhere. All I’m asking is that I get my complaint addressed in a manner that is common-sense oriented. That is, at least getting 20 percent of my speed so I can Stream in SD. Is this unreasonable?  

 

Gwalk900
Honorary Alumnus

You just seem to have issues posted all over the place.

From the tone of your posts I'm not sure that you understand just what satellite Internet is.

Satellite Internet is a connection type of last resort. It is not  the equal of, or in competition with, any ground or cellular based systems.

You are not going to get the same 'steadyness' or consistent throughput as found in ground based systems.

You can yell until you turn blue and/or complain to as many three letter agencies as you please but it will not change the laws of physics or the fact that a satellite connection is a shared resource. Shared on several levels.

 

Throttling:

To me (13+ year sat user) Throttling is a deliberate act to limit speeds .... and yes, Hughes does throttle .. under certain conditions:

#1: According to platform: Spaceway-3 users have a top "up to" speed of 5 Mbps

#2: According to plan level with "up to" speeds of 10, 15 and now in the case of Gen5 (ES19) 25 Mbps.

#3: When a user has depleted their data allowance and is subject to the FAP rules.

and speeds as related to video data can be modified due to the settings you have selected for the Video Data Saver function.

VDS.PNG

 

Beyond that you keep talking about 'greed' and 'oversold' as if you have something more going on other than plain guesswork.

In the case of Gen4 (HT1100 modem) it is likely that the satellite is very heavily tasked but you have to keep in mind that ES17 has 60 spot beams. It is possible for one beam to be overloaded either at peak times or across the board.

I have Gen4 service, the Ultra plan ... up to ... 15 Mbps and I usually have speeds in the area of 21 to 27 Mbps. Proof that the entire satellite is not 'oversold' or being throttled.

Here is a Beam Map:

Gateway Map 12 snip.png

Despite what you think  know, not all speed issues have the same root cause. That brings us to troubleshooting and procedures.

Even if you have ran speeds in the past, users are directed to do so again when posting in the Community.

The Forum Mods are at the corporate level and have access to Engineering. The Engineers will need hard data to assess you issue.

It may indeed come down to your beam/gateway being overloaded. There are some options that Engineering has that address the issue ... if in the end 'overload' is at the root then you have two choices ... three really:

#1: Upgrade to Gen5

#2: Wait for more of your fellow users to migrate from ES17 to ES19 thereby freeing up capacity

#3:Cancel your service.

 

There are other aspects of course including 'leaks' in your network that consume sorely needed bandwidth while you are attempting high data demand activity but somehow I think you would be adverse to looking at these items.

Bottom line, satellite is shared resource, there is no amount of complaining that 'this ain't cable' is going to turn it into cable.

Do the speed tests, post the results ... the Mods will tell you if there is nothing more that can be done for you short of options 1,2 or 3 I posted above.

 

 

 

Coming from a person who is consistently getting 25 Mbps, right!  How about we ask Hugesnet to switch our accounts, lets see how coopative and accomodating you'll be when your speed reduces to less than 17 percent of what you pay for on a regular basis. As stated, I'd be happy with a consistent 25 percent LOL. Some of guys are a piece of work.  How about it want to switch, put your money where your mouth is. Let me know. 

Gwalk900
Honorary Alumnus


@skybox wrote:

 How about we ask Hugesnet to switch our accounts, lets see how coopative and accomodating you'll be when your speed reduces to less than 17 percent

Some of guys are a piece of work.  How about it want to switch, put your money where your mouth is. Let me know. 


It's difficult to say who you addressed the above comment to but .....

You keep ranting the same rant without posting any factual data that can be used to address your perceived but so far unsubstantiated issue.

You had to see Liz's post to you above relating to obstruction/LOS issues.

Beyond that, as stated before. The Community Mods are at the corporate level and can bump you problem directly to Engineering .... but not without supporting data. Run the speed tests as follows for Gen4:

 

Welcome to help the Hughesnet Customer Service Reps get a head start on your speed concerns, you should create a testmy.net account and perform 3-5 tests during different parts of the day, all using a 12MB manual download test. Then share the account results link with us here.

Please keep in mind that Hughesnet will only accept testmy.net and the official Hughesnet speed test results. Tests from other sites like speedtest.net are not accepted due to the compression technologies and latency that satellite deploys.

Most important points:
-do the tests while directly connected to the HughesNet modem with a LAN cable (NO ROUTER or Wireless devices)
-use the 12MB size download test file
-space each test at least 5 minutes apart
-post your results URL here, it may look something like http://testmy.net/quickstats/C0RR0SIVE


For a more in depth guide on running the tests, please visit: http://customer.kb.hughesnet.com/Pages/7001.aspx

The Reps are on M-F from approximately 8AM to 5PM Eastern. They will be the ones to address your speed issues, but they will need these tests to do so.

 

Lets see if you can understand the following.

Due to the high latency inherent to a satellite connection and because your connection is behind a CGN server .. most speed test sites will not give accurate results.

You have to run tests at testmy.net. You have to create and account and log into that account before running a series of tests. The download tests need to be manual tests, 12 MB in size.

Run a series of 3 to 5 tests, spaced at least 5 minutes apart. Try to run three series of tests in a day, early, mid-day and late so as to make data points that engineering can use to develope a picture of your performance.

Run the test while connected directly to the Modem ... no router ... for a number of reasons,

Post a link as directed above here in your thread so the engineers can refer to your data as it develops.

 

Hopefully you can understand this. The speed tests mean nothing if immediately after I can't stream in SD. Hopefully you can comprehended the post I wrote to you a few minutes ago about why I believe throtting is the issue and not equipment or the results of speed tests. If a speed test comes back acceptable but immediately after the bandwidth speed drops significantly what does that indicate to you? The true test is what I see on the screen. From comments on this and other forums this is not an isolated issue. We can all dance until he.ll freezes over, puff out our chests and pontificate our brillance. But the only solution I'll accept is the one where I turn on the TV and I can stream a movie in SD. In other words, if the speed test says 20 Mbps download  but I can't stream in SD then that means I'm getting less than 2 Mbps when it counts most- agree? And if that's the case, then the only logical explanation is when Hugesnet detects streaming of any sort then the throttling algorithms kick-in.  Nothing anyone has said up to this point has convinced me otherwise. 

GabeU
Distinguished Professor IV


@skybox wrote:

 In other words, if the speed test says 20 Mbps download  but I can't stream in SD then that means I'm getting less than 2 Mbps when it counts most- agree? 


No.  Speed is only half of it.  The speed of the signal must also be consistent and smooth.  If one does speed tests and the results graphs looks like the Sawtooth Mountains, the signal may not be of sufficient consitency to stream smoothly, whereas if the graphs look more like a smooth line, the ability to stream smoothly will be much more likely.  

Hugesnet problem not mine.

Hi skybox,

 

Thank you for that confirmation. As a courtesy to you, I've issued a dispatch for your site; I'd like to make sure the HughesNet equipment are all functioning properly before we further evaluate your system performance.

 

There were no available slots for me to schedule your site visit, so your assigned dealer will reach out to you to arrange an appointment.

 

If you're still experiencing slow speeds after the site visit, I would like to see some testmy.net speed test results to see what we're working with. As Gwalk noted, we do have a specific method for having the testmy.net speed tests run, so please read and follow the instructions here to get your testmy.net account set up: http://customer.kb.hughesnet.com/Pages/7001.aspx

 

Most important points:
-do the tests while directly connected to the HughesNet modem with a LAN cable (NO ROUTER or Wireless devices)
-use the 12MB size download test file
-space each test at least 5 minutes apart
-post your results URL here, it may look something like http://testmy.net/quickstats/C0RR0SIVE

 

Looking forward to hearing how the site visit goes.

 

If you have a tech or billing question and need help, please start a new thread in the appropriate board. Unsolicited Private Messages may not get replies.

Slow performance? Click me!

Liz than you for attempting to help, I know you mean well and I welcome the technician. But please understand I've dome what you're now asking at least three times and everything checks out. It should be in my records. In fact I belive I have a copy of the email the tech sent me if you would like a copy. Please see the message I just posted to wag the tail and don't bak or something like that, below. This should give you a clearer picture of the issue. As mentioned, for the most part the speed test comes back within an acceptable range but right after when I attempt to stream in SD it works for about five minutes then goes to he.ll. I don't have much faith in the speed test based on my experiences. I'm convinced its saturation of the beam I'm on. 

If you read some of my other posts you'll see that  I ran the speed tests and on average the results indicated approximately  60 to 70 percent of my allotment. So here is what I did immediately after running the tests. I selected a streaming program and began to watch. For the first five minutes or so it was adequate. Then after about five minutes, on all three occassions, the bottom dropped out. The resoultion dropped and buffering started. I tried both netfix and amazon prime - both same results. I had Hugesnet techs walk me through my equipment and on three seperate occassions everything checked out.  So this is why I rant abut throttling. If the speed test indicates 70 percent speed, which is enough for HD, then why after five minutes of streaming,on three seperate occassions,does the speed drop below 17 percent and makes SD streaming impossible? I can only deduce based on these tests that Hugesnet detects and throttles any type of streaming. Why else would I have good speed tests but can't stream in SD a few minutes later?  What conclusdion would you come to if you experinced the same results?  I guess I'm frustrated because I have been experiencing this for sometime now and all I get is "go somewher else, called a troll, sign up for Gen 5 at an increase cost etc. By the way if I was absoultly positive that Gen5 would't suffer the same fate as Gen4 I would sign up, but based on my experience I don't have a lot of confidence.

C0RR0SIVE
Associate Professor

As stated earlier, there is a protocol to follow, they will need a link to your testmy.net account results.  Engineers wont just take your word of mouth.

They don't have to they got the results from past tests. This isn't my first rodeo with this issue, I followed the prtocol and still no fix to my less than 17 percent speed when attempting to stream SD. 

That always end up being the result because you can't fix overbooking or throttling. Again, Hugesnet has the results of past speed tests, nothing has changed dramatically. As I said, the speed test come back within an acceptable range but for some strange reason within 10 minuts of the speed test when I attempt to stream the speed reduces to less than 17 percent? Cab you explain this?  This forum appears to geared more to wearing one down then coming up with suitable solutions. If you want to help, switch me to another beam with much less congestion if that's possible. We'lll then see what happens..thx  

GabeU
Distinguished Professor IV

@skybox

 

You can't simply be switched to another beam.   It doesn't work that way.  

Can you tell me what is the difference in the technology deployed in the Gen5 satellite that makes it more efficient? Also, do you know if it too will be susceptible to over booking in time?