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lighthope1
Senior

HughesNet Tier 4 support refused to help with unusual high latency problem

Here is a record of this current problem.

 

Record begins.

 

Case ##124526040

Had issue with low speeds in evening.  400K speeds.  Was switched to different satellite.  Speed problem solved, however, now am experiencing very high and wildly swinging ping times.  Between 800 ms and 44,000ms!!!!!!!!!!!!  (That 44,000 was only recorded once.  Usual upper limit is 5,000 ms)

 

At times, websites like Facebook won't load and any kind of streaming is impossibly stuttered.

 

Called Tier 1 support.

 

First call.  Weather was blamed.

 

Second call same day.  Weather was blamed.

 

Third call next day (Next day (10-18-19).  Disconnected

 

Called back.  Represetative clearly did not speak English natively and had some communication problems.  Representative said case has been escalated to Engineering department and that I would receive a call tomorrow in the AM. Reference #124564944.  Very oddly the representative asked me what I had for dinner.


Engineering called back 10-21 in the afternoon. Heavy storm overhead. Have to call back.


Called back 10-22 1:37 PM. Told Tier 4 Representative about ping problems.  I told him that ping was wildly swinging between 800ms and a record 44,000 ms.  I also said that I never had this problem on the old satellite.

 

Representative said he would not do anything about it, said 2000+ latency is just the way that it is. (Not a direct quote)

 

I acknowledged that he refused to do anything about it.  Representative thanked me for calling HugesNet Support.

 

End of record.

 

So bascially HughesNet Tier 4 told me to go suck an egg.  They won't do anything about it.

 

Great customer service.

 

Wish there was another company in my area.  Will keep looking and hoping.

79 REPLIES 79

Still no contact from HughesNet on this issue. Called Tier 1 support today. Tech made some adjustments. Technician said he is seeing high latency spikes. After several adjustments, latency spikes seems to have smoothed out a bit. Will continue to check over the next few days. I will continue to update this so people can see how HughesNet is handling it.

@lighthope1,

 

Thank you for contacting us. I have been following this thread for the past few days and watching our representatives troubleshoot during your calls. I have also been running diagnostics of my own. The issue we are running into here is that the problems being experienced are being caused by something we cannot resolve remotely or on-site. Your equipment is fully operational. What you are experiencing are typical side effects due to the current state of satellite internet technology, just a bit more severe. Ultimately, we hope that all of our users experience much less of this, but in some cases, this can vary from customer to customer, in terms of severity. I confirmed this information based on the fact that you have an optimal dish signal, with a recently clean diagnostics history. Also, your speeds are well-above average for your plan. I understand this is not an ideal situation, but neither I nor our engineers can alter the latency at this point. This is something we are working hard to improve and have made strides with previously. 

 

I see that our representatives have already applied a monthly discount to your account, as a form of compensation. Currently, this is the extent of what can be done. If our service is no longer able to meet your needs, we understand if you decide to move on to another ISP. I do apologize for the inconvenience.

 

-Damian   


After one night of testing, I am still getting some higher than normal latency, but it has smoothed out somewhat, and I have not gotten any of that 6K+ latency. I will keep testing and report in this thread what is happening so everyone can see.


@Damian wrote:

@lighthope1,

 

Thank you for contacting us. I have been following this thread for the past few days and watching our representatives troubleshoot during your calls.

 

You have?  Then I am somewhat disappointed that you never jumped in to say anything.  It was I who had to make yet another call, otherwise this problem would have continued unaddressed.

 

I have also been running diagnostics of my own. The issue we are running into here is that the problems being experienced are being caused by something we cannot resolve remotely or on-site. Your equipment is fully operational. What you are experiencing are typical side effects due to the current state of satellite internet technology, just a bit more severe.

 

If that is true, then why did I not experience this when I was on the other satellite?  If this is, as you say, "are typical side effects," then this problem should be universal and not have appearly only after I was moved to a different satellite.

 

Ultimately, we hope that all of our users experience much less of this, but in some cases, this can vary from customer to customer, in terms of severity. I confirmed this information based on the fact that you have an optimal dish signal, with a recently clean diagnostics history. Also, your speeds are well-above average for your plan.

 

My speeds are very nice.  Much apprecaited.

 

I understand this is not an ideal situation, but neither I nor our engineers can alter the latency at this point.

 

That is an odd thing to say, since the most recent adjustments made by your Tier 1 representative did indeed seem to have some effect.  We'll continue to monitor and see if this is just a temporary thing or more permanent.

 

This is something we are working hard to improve and have made strides with previously. 

 

I see that our representatives have already applied a monthly discount to your account, as a form of compensation.

 

If you examined the case as you say you have, then you know the compensation was for the months of detrmental speeds (400K mbps was the lowest recorded speed), and had nothing to do with the high latency that is being experienced now

 

Currently, this is the extent of what can be done.

 

Latency for a satellite is about 600ms.  Anything above that has to do with congestion, data clogs, bad traffic management, or hardware failure/misconfiguation.  All these are well within your ability to correct.  (Unless the issue is with the satellite itself, which would clearly be beyond your reach but not beyond your responsibility.)

 

A theory discussed with the latest representative was moving to a different gateway and see if that solves the problem. (Indicative of a gateway problem or data clog in the area.)

 

If our service is no longer able to meet your needs, we understand if you decide to move on to another ISP. I do apologize for the inconvenience.

 

That statement is extremely disingenuous. You know very well that no one uses satellite unless no other option is available.  So you know I have nowhere else to go.

 

Your statement to "move on to another ISP" simply appears to be an attempt to get rid of the complainer rather than fix the problem.

 

I will continue to update this thread so others can see how HughesNet addresses or doesn't address this problem.

 

Special kudos to the Tier 1 representative for case #124881865.  He was very helpful, saw the problem, and worked on fixing it.  A direct opposite to this message I am replying to.  Very, very disappointed in Damian's response.  I will log it for the record.


 

After a weekend of testing, I have the following observations: Web pages are loading slightly faster. This is in line with what the Tier 1 representative did in regards to adjusting some configurations. (I don't recall the exact words he used, so don't marry me to that phrasing.) The high latency problem, however, remains, with the largest spike being around 30 seconds. Sunday was a particularly bad day with latency generally between 2000ms and 4000ms with even higher spikes (plus some 700ms thrown in there). The next step in addressing this problem would be to move to a different gateway. This will tell us if the problem is with dish alignment (highly unlikely), a problem with the Seattle gateway (most likely given posts by others here), or a more widespread, system-wide problem (doubtful, but possible). The challenge is to get HughesNet to move me to a different gateway since, based on the response by @Damian, HughesNet still isn't even acknowledging their responsibility for the problem, instead opting to blame some untouchable "boogeyman" which apparently must be swinging the satellite from its orbit to somewhere around the moon based on these huge latency spikes. We'll see. I will continue to update this thread to record what becomes of this.

(Strange. I have no idea why it smashed all my paragraphs into one bunch. But they were spaced out!)
GabeU
Distinguished Professor IV


@lighthope1 wrote:
The next step in addressing this problem would be to move to a different gateway. This will tell us if the problem is with dish alignment (highly unlikely), a problem with the Seattle gateway (most likely given posts by others here), or a more widespread, system-wide problem (doubtful, but possible).  

You can't be moved to a different gateway, as each beam is assigned to a single, specific gateway.  The only possible way to move to a different gateway is to be re-pointed to the alternate satellite, and then your gateway would be whichever one your beam on the alternate satellite is assigned to.


Ryzen 5 3400G | MSI B450M Pro-M2 MAX | 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4 3000 | XPG SX8200 Pro 512GB NVMe | Windows 10 Pro

@GabeU > You can't be moved to a different gateway, as each beam is assigned to a single, specific gateway. > The only possible way to move to a different gateway is to be re-pointed to the alternate satellite, > and then your gateway would be whichever one your beam on the alternate satellite is assigned to. (The message quote thing isn't working for me.) The Tier 1 rep who I talked to last said engineering had to do it. So it's possible or he was mistaken. idk


@GabeU wrote:

@lighthope1 wrote:
The next step in addressing this problem would be to move to a different gateway. This will tell us if the problem is with dish alignment (highly unlikely), a problem with the Seattle gateway (most likely given posts by others here), or a more widespread, system-wide problem (doubtful, but possible).  

You can't be moved to a different gateway, as each beam is assigned to a single, specific gateway.  The only possible way to move to a different gateway is to be re-pointed to the alternate satellite, and then your gateway would be whichever one your beam on the alternate satellite is assigned to.


(Okay, it was my browser that was messing up the message. Let's try it with a different browser)

 

The Tier 1 rep who I talked to last said engineering had to do it. So it's possible or he was mistaken. idk

GabeU
Distinguished Professor IV

@lighthope1 

 

It's possible he was referring to switching to an alternate beam that overlaps your location.  A different beam would be assigned to a different gateway, but this is rarely done, and only when the signal from the alternate is adequate, which normally isn't the case.  


Ryzen 5 3400G | MSI B450M Pro-M2 MAX | 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4 3000 | XPG SX8200 Pro 512GB NVMe | Windows 10 Pro


@GabeU wrote:

@lighthope1 

 

It's possible he was referring to switching to an alternate beam that overlaps your location.  A different beam would be assigned to a different gateway, but this is rarely done, and only when the signal from the alternate is adequate, which normally isn't the case.  


That could be what he meant.  That was how I interpreted it.

 

I do have to get something done about this latency.  It interferes with my online education.  Live videos will skip with this kind of hangup.  And YouTube keeps buffering despite really good speeds.  So speed is great...when the speed isn't zero due to the latency spikes.

11-11-19 Ann Smith Ram tests, followed script to the letter. Representative had some trouble understanding speed variance during upload test. (Reported speed was average, and that upload speed varied between 4.48 and 0.29) Sent to Advanced Technical Support immediately. Ely Lopez. Denied responsibility. Said could not move to different gateway but might be able to move me to a different beam. Said moving to different beam would not change gateways. Making report to engineering. Case #125090946 Said to call Tier 1 support with this case number and report when latency issue happens again. Agent was told that this issue happens all the time and is variable, happening every several seconds. Asked how would I know if someone is actually working on this. Agent could not give specific information. Asked what was the point of calling this issue into Tier 1 again when I had made so many different reports. Agent was unable to give specific information. I will continue to log and report how HughesNet deals with this issue...or doesn't.

Don't know how Facebook works, but here is the latest page load time.

 

Redirect00
App cache---0
DNS lookup---0
TCP connection---0
TCP request176663
TCP response66800
Processing6682198506
onload event20518859

 

And for this post page.

 

Redirect00
App cache00
DNS lookup00
TCP connection00
TCP request142225
TCP response2239286
Processing22419261
onload event115020

 

No contact from HughesNet since I talked to them last on 11-11-19.  Issue with very high latency spikes continues.

Here are some traceroutes.

 

Interesting that it always times out around the qwest.net one.

 

Tracing route to dmukx06zie5kn.cloudfront.net [2600:9000:2164:b200:1a:81cc:6dc0:93a1]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 2001:5b0:4fd1:9ad8:280:aeff:fe72:b44
2 622 ms 618 ms 628 ms 2001:5b0:4f00:1101::1
3 619 ms 656 ms 640 ms 2001:5b0:4f00:fffa::105
4 611 ms 628 ms 625 ms 2001:5b0:4f00:fffa::104
5 622 ms 618 ms 628 ms 2001:428:6402:10:0:36:0:1
6 656 ms 608 ms 652 ms 2001:428:6402:10:0:e:0:2
7 * * * Request timed out.
8 * * * Request timed out.
9 609 ms 634 ms 623 ms 2600:9000:fff:ff00::300
10 638 ms 668 ms 645 ms 2600:9000:fff:ff01:0:50:102:41
11 609 ms 641 ms 638 ms 2600:9000:fff:ff00::401
12 * * * Request timed out.
13 * * * Request timed out.
14 649 ms 620 ms 581 ms 2600:9000:2164:b200:1a:81cc:6dc0:93a1

Trace complete.

 

Tracing route to tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com [192.0.79.32]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.42.1
2 613 ms 612 ms 648 ms host174330065208.direcway.com [174.33.208.65]
3 693 ms 608 ms 618 ms host17433005213.direcway.com [174.33.213.5]
4 614 ms 578 ms 636 ms host17433004213.direcway.com [174.33.213.4]
5 611 ms 614 ms 643 ms tuk-edge-14.inet.qwest.net [65.153.170.53]
6 637 ms 620 ms 637 ms sjp-brdr-06.inet.qwest.net [67.14.34.214]
7 * * * Request timed out.
8 646 ms 663 ms 628 ms Comcast-level3-60G.SanJose1.Level3.net [4.68.75.106]
9 643 ms 648 ms 608 ms 50.248.116.14
10 620 ms 598 ms 599 ms wordpress.com [192.0.79.32]

Trace complete.


Tracing route to miceage.com [50.63.202.25]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.42.1
2 644 ms 598 ms 629 ms host174330065208.direcway.com [174.33.208.65]
3 605 ms 638 ms 648 ms host17433005213.direcway.com [174.33.213.5]
4 633 ms 628 ms 577 ms host174330033213.direcway.com [174.33.213.33]
5 595 ms 638 ms 638 ms tuk-edge-14.inet.qwest.net [65.153.170.53]
6 634 ms 608 ms 628 ms sea-brdr-03.inet.qwest.net [67.14.41.154]
7 * * * Request timed out.
8 686 ms 659 ms 696 ms 4.69.216.158
9 628 ms 648 ms 656 ms 4.53.228.238
10 691 ms 658 ms 658 ms ae1.ibrsa0107-01.lax1.bb.godaddy.com [148.72.34.7]
11 * * * Request timed out.
12 678 ms 648 ms 678 ms 148.72.32.16
13 652 ms 638 ms 675 ms be38.trmc0215-01.ars.mgmt.phx3.gdg [184.168.0.69]
14 660 ms 668 ms 658 ms ip-184-168-0-102.ip.secureserver.net [184.168.0.102]
15 663 ms 698 ms 654 ms ip-50-63-202-25.ip.secureserver.net [50.63.202.25]

Trace complete.

 

Tracing route to youtube.com [2607:f8b0:400a:800::200e]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 2001:5b0:4fd1:9ad8:280:aeff:fe72:b44
2 635 ms 628 ms 638 ms 2001:5b0:4f00:1101::1
3 624 ms 618 ms 598 ms 2001:5b0:4f00:fffa::105
4 * 617 ms * 2001:5b0:4f00:fffa::10a
5 674 ms 661 ms 608 ms 2001:428:6402:10:0:36:0:1
6 615 ms 608 ms 608 ms 2001:428::205:171:3:129
7 635 ms 608 ms 628 ms 2001:428:6402:10:0:2b:0:2
8 640 ms 658 ms 639 ms 2001:4860:0:1041::1
9 615 ms 628 ms 628 ms 2001:4860:0:1::1e6f
10 634 ms 648 ms 595 ms sea15s07-in-x0e.1e100.net [2607:f8b0:400a:800::200e]

Trace complete.

 

Tracing route to testmy.net [2606:4700:20::681a:573]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 2001:5b0:4fd1:9ad8:280:aeff:fe72:b44
2 659 ms 618 ms 658 ms 2001:5b0:4f00:1101::1
3 610 ms 606 ms 636 ms 2001:5b0:4f00:fffa::105
4 622 ms * * 2001:5b0:4f00:fffa::10a
5 607 ms 638 ms 628 ms 2001:428:6402:10:0:36:0:1
6 607 ms 628 ms 648 ms 2001:428:0:1:205:171:0:58
7 865 ms 1028 ms 898 ms 2001:428:a01:a::2
8 644 ms 628 ms 638 ms 2001:1900:2100::457a
9 584 ms 630 ms 626 ms 2606:4700:20::681a:573

Trace complete.

 

Tracing route to us.blizzard.com [137.221.106.102]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.42.1
2 643 ms 618 ms 608 ms host174330065208.direcway.com [174.33.208.65]
3 649 ms 643 ms 618 ms host17433005213.direcway.com [174.33.213.5]
4 634 ms 628 ms 638 ms host174330033213.direcway.com [174.33.213.33]
5 614 ms 628 ms 658 ms tuk-edge-14.inet.qwest.net [65.153.170.53]
6 634 ms 609 ms 648 ms sea-brdr-03.inet.qwest.net [67.14.41.154]
7 * * * Request timed out.
8 * * * Request timed out.
9 676 ms 668 ms 628 ms BLIZZARD-EN.ear3.LosAngeles1.Level3.net [4.71.135.106]
10 683 ms 674 ms 683 ms ae1-br01-eqla1.as57976.net [137.221.68.33]
11 637 ms 700 ms 668 ms et-0-0-2-br01-swlv10.as57976.net [137.221.65.69]
12 622 ms 656 ms 627 ms et-0-0-31-pe01-swlv10.as57976.net [137.221.83.67]
13 641 ms 677 ms 669 ms las-swlv10-ia-bons-02.as57976.net [137.221.66.19]
14 671 ms 661 ms 664 ms 137.221.105.17
15 677 ms 678 ms 658 ms 137.221.106.102

Trace complete.

 

Tracing route to google.com [2607:f8b0:400a:803::200e]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 2001:5b0:4fd1:9ad8:280:aeff:fe72:b44
2 596 ms 658 ms 628 ms 2001:5b0:4f00:1101::1
3 624 ms 628 ms 618 ms 2001:5b0:4f00:fffa::105
4 646 ms * * 2001:5b0:4f00:fffa::104
5 638 ms 595 ms 621 ms 2001:428:6402:10:0:36:0:1
6 637 ms 618 ms 632 ms 2001:428::205:171:3:129
7 640 ms 639 ms 618 ms 2001:428:6402:10:0:2b:0:2
8 624 ms 648 ms 598 ms 2001:4860:0:4::1
9 620 ms * * 2001:4860:0:1::255b
10 619 ms 637 ms 610 ms sea30s02-in-x0e.1e100.net [2607:f8b0:400a:803::200e]

Trace complete.

Qwest is your gateway's internet provider. CenturyLink now owns all of Qwest, just like they own all of Level3.

If you didn't think CentryLink was the problem, now you should.


* Disclaimer: I am a HughesNet customer and not a HughesNet employee. All of my comments are my own and do not necessarily represent HughesNet in any way.
maratsade
Distinguished Professor IV

CenturyLink may actually own the Internet. 


@MarkJFine wrote:

Qwest is your gateway's internet provider. CenturyLink now owns all of Qwest, just like they own all of Level3.

If you didn't think CentryLink was the problem, now you should.


Based on some other posts, that was actually my guess.  Qwest/CenturyLink is the source of the data clog.

 

The problem is getting HughesNet to even admit something is wrong.  For example, take a look at this complete ignorant reply by @Damian.

 

What you are experiencing are typical side effects due to the current state of satellite internet technology, just a bit more severe.

 

Seriously?  Seriously?!

 

And to make it worse, that is the same by-the-book answer I got from another HughesNet employee, indicating that they are trained to disavow any problem rather than address it.

 

You know, I would have been accepting of an answer that went, "We know there is a problem.  It seems Qwest is throttling our gateway connection to the internet.  We are working on a solution either with them or a work around them.  Please be patient as we continue to address this issue you are having."

 

I would naturally be frustrated that the problem is continuing, but at least I would know the problem is being acknowledged and worked on.

 

But this outright lie by some HughesNet employees.  No, I won't say lie.  Perhaps they really are not good at thier job and don't understand how things work.  Perhaps they need to be retained or reassigned.  I will be generous and consider that possibility.

 

But that is where the real frustration come from.  To have a problem. To show evidence of a problem.  And to have HughesNet blow you off.  And to have one of them...Damian...say well just go find another isp.  Wow, just wow.  I will certainly be mentioning that in the letter to Corporate I'll be sending shortly once I compile some more data on how this issue is being addressed or (currently) not being addressed.

 

You may be angry, but your anger is misplaced. Why are you getting angry with HughesNet and their representatives, when they only have visibility into what they're responsible for? They're not responsible for CenturyLink's wonky backbone any more than you are.


* Disclaimer: I am a HughesNet customer and not a HughesNet employee. All of my comments are my own and do not necessarily represent HughesNet in any way.


@MarkJFine wrote:

You may be angry, but your anger is misplaced. Why are you getting angry with HughesNet and their representatives, when they only have visibility into what they're responsible for? They're not responsible for CenturyLink's wonky backbone any more than you are.


To quote my own post:

 

The problem is getting HughesNet to even admit something is wrong. 

 

But this outright lie by some HughesNet employees. 

 

To have a problem. To show evidence of a problem. And to have HughesNet blow you off.

 

That is where the anger comes from.

 

You: Doctor, I need help.  My arm is severed off.

 

Doctor: No it isn't.

 

You: Yes it is.  You can see it's severed off.

 

Doctor: No I can't.

 

You: I'm holding my severed arm in my other hand.

 

Doctor: What you are experiencing are typical side effects due to the current state of arms, just a bit more severe.

I'm not going to argue with you. You go right ahead and continue directing your anger to everyone not responsible for your problem. I'm out.


* Disclaimer: I am a HughesNet customer and not a HughesNet employee. All of my comments are my own and do not necessarily represent HughesNet in any way.


@MarkJFine wrote:

I'm not going to argue with you. You go right ahead and continue directing your anger to everyone not responsible for your problem. I'm out.


If you're not going to be helpful, there's no reason for you to reply.

GabeU
Distinguished Professor IV

@lighthope1 

 

I think the problem you're going to have is that you're dismissive of anything anyone tells you, even when factual, if it doesn't fit the narrative you've invested in, which is that the problem is HughesNet's and that need to fix it.  The issue is out of their control.

 

Good luck to you.


Ryzen 5 3400G | MSI B450M Pro-M2 MAX | 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4 3000 | XPG SX8200 Pro 512GB NVMe | Windows 10 Pro