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Rapid data drain during second half of data cycle

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Distinguished Professor IV

Re: Rapid data drain during second half of data cycle

@macsociety

 

We have a sizable old order Amish community near here, and until she retired two years ago my mother provided medical care to them, including doing house calls.  She has sometimes said she wishes she could live like them.  She has a lot of books and such concerning the Amish, and she and my stepfather used to vacation every year in Berlin, Ohio.  

 

Oh, and the Lehman's catalog is fantastic!  

 


Ryzen 5 3400G | MSI B450M Pro-M2 MAX | 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4 3000 | XPG SX8200 Pro 512GB NVMe | Windows 10 Pro
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Re: Rapid data drain during second half of data cycle

Yeh, I have purchased my fair share from Lehman’s. Hand crank ice cream maker years ago was my last. TJ
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Associate Professor

Re: Rapid data drain during second half of data cycle

@Sweetpea3829
Just an off suggestion given the possibility: When was the last time you scanned your computer for viruses and malware. There has been a severe botnet that's kicked off recently and they are cyclical. It may be possible that your computer is part of it without you knowing it, as that's how those things work.


* Disclaimer: I am a HughesNet customer and not a HughesNet employee. All of my comments are my own and do not necessarily represent HughesNet in any way.
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Honorary Alumnus

Re: Rapid data drain during second half of data cycle

@Sweetpea3829

 

I noticed that some fellow users made suggestions and you never commented on them ... installing Glasswire for example.

This makes me a little reluctant to enter the fray but ...........

 

I understand your issue to be accelerated data usage, primarily during the latter part of your usage cycle.

 

So lets look at how data usage is recorded and reported:

 

Data "Traffic" takes a couple of different forms:

> Command & Control <

> User data including upload and download from both the wired and wireless portions of the Modem <

 

Command & Control is NOT charged against your data allowance

 

Download, Upload and re-transmission of data IS charged against your allowance.

 

So we have TWO different levels of communication between the modem and the Gateway going on.

When the Modem is powered on and there are no issues such as weather at either the user end or the Gateway end the Modem will tally the amount of data used and periodically, as part of the Command & Control, send information to the Gateway regarding the amount of data you have used since the last "sync cycle". That data is used to update the MyAccount usage meter, which then in turn updates the SCC usage meter, the download status meter and both usage "History" display meters.

 

For this to happen the Modem MUST remain powered on and in communication with the Gateway. If the Modem is powered off then the "sync cycle" is delayed, the usage and history meters are not updated in a timely manner and everything data related is delayed until the next sync cycle.

 

********* For the greatest accuracy, the modem must remain powered up and in communication with the Gateway ***********

 

You have to maintain the "Hughes Loop":

1 Hughes Loop.PNG

 

If you can't get past this one you will never have the best accuracy displayed by the usage and history meters .... period.

Powering off the Modem will cause data that had be used but not yet tallied to be deducted on the next sync cycle.

 

Lets look at a block diagram of a HT2000w modem and the "conneection paths" that data can travel:

WiFi modem main.png

 

There are four parts to the Modem:

 

1: Ethernet

2: Wireless

3: Router

4: Mod/Demod

 

1: Ethernet

Any and all devices plugged into an Ethernet port will have access to your data allowance.

Disconnecting ALL wired device WILL prevent communication along this "connection path".

It is NOT enough to have the device "turned off". I can think of at least three different "types" of "Off".

Only disconnection of ALL Ethernet cables will insure that this connection path is totally disabled.

 

2: Wireless

It is NOT enough to turn off the wireless function with a given device to insure the wireless connection paths are disabled.

You MUST turn off ALL FOUR wireless paths within the wireless portion of the Modem to be effective. This includes regular 2.4 ghz and 5.0 ghz paths plus the 2.4 and 5.0 "guest accounts". Even this can leave vulnerablilites such has have WPS enabled.

 

4: Mod/Demod we wish to have enabled and up and running because the periodic "sync cycles" that report cached usage is desired.

 

There are two connection paths we are concerned with:

Ethernet .... disconnect ALL the Etherent cables

Wireless .... All "radios" turned off within the Modem.

 

To gain control you HAVE to cut the "connection paths", both wired and wireless, at the central point .... at the Modem while leaving the "Command & Control" active.

 

That brings us to ... how to determine what is using data across the network.

 

The best method is to disable the "radios" in the modem and add your own Router ... one that can track data on all possable connection paths and display that usage per day or defined period per device, per device application.

That is the surest and fastest method.

 

I suggest you buy something like and Asus RT AC68u Router.

I have an Asus RT-AC3100, a little pricey ...

A AC68u running the asuswrt-merlin firmware will give you the Traffic Analyzer at a lower cost:

 

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833320174&cm_re=Asus_RT_aC68u-_-33-320-174-_-...

 

That will take the mystery out of the problem directly and allow you to take steps to control whatever is running, likely something in the background.

 

So, what is running?

A single computer has 65,536 "ports", each of which can connect to your interent connection.

Some you can see .... an open browser .... port 80, a email client program uses two more.

These are PROGRAMS ... but then we have something else .... PROCESSES.

These run unseen in the background.

 

Lets look at my Win7 laptop:

A peek at Windows Task Manager shows just a few "applicaions" running. These I can "see":

applicaions.PNG

 

Processes however are another matter, Task Manager shows 99 background PROCESSES running.

Processes.PNG

 

Each of these can and will use data, running unseen in the background. They will turn on, they will turn off, some are on a schedule, others are "triggered" by some condition or event.

Without being able to monitor all connections paths or running software such as Glasswire on a single machine, you simply have no idea what is using data unseen.

My advice: Buy the Asus router and get your answers in the quickest way possible.

It can be done by other methods but with the sporatic nature of your "late in cycle: usage .... it will be a lot harder.

 

 

 

 

 

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Honorary Alumnus

Re: Rapid data drain during second half of data cycle

As an addendum here is a shot of Glasswire from my laptop:

Glasswire.PNG

 

It shows a very detailed report of both Programs and Processes ... but only on this single machine.

 

My Router on the other hand gives a much more "global" picture of all devices tha have conneced and used data across all connection paths of my entire network:

 

All devices that connected over the past two days:

all two days.PNG

 

Statistics and hours of usage occurance over the last 24 hours for all devices:

Statistics.PNG

 

Hours of usage and active applications for a single device in the past 24 hour period.

single device.PNG

 

 

 

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Advanced Tutor

Re: Rapid data drain during second half of data cycle

@Sweetpea3829

UNPLUG & DISCONNECT YOUR ENTIRE MODEM FROM YOUR COMPUTER (for 12 full hours)

While this suggestion may cause some inconvienience, it would seem to me to be your next logical step in figuring this 'data loss' out.

 

If you unplug your modem from the wall, and disconnect the ethernet cable from your computer (just for the **bleep** of it) and leave it unplugged for a good 12 hours, if not longer....you should NOT lose any data during that time.

Your meter should remain at the same % as it was showing right before you turned everything off.

(you can take a screen shot of your meter right before unplugging your modem)

 

The Hughesnet official reps @Liz or @Amanda can verify that you have actually unplugged your modem as they can see this on their end, so there would be no question as to whether you performed this test or not prior to revealing the results of such a test, especially in the event that you continue to lose data during this complete shutdown of equipment.

 

If you are still somehow using/losing data during these 12 hours of being unplugged, then YES, you obviously have a problem at which time one of the official reps will no doubt start an official investigation as to why this is happening.

 

If you don't use any data during this period of time, which I suspect that you won't....then regardless of what you may believe (you may not want to hear this), you, your kids, your amish neighbors and/or your computer and devices are indeed using more data than you think you are.

 

Again..while this may be somewhat of an inconvienience to your and your family...it certainly would clear up some of the mystery and allow the good folk on here to start narrowing down the cause of your 'toward the end of every the month' data loss...

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Re: Rapid data drain during second half of data cycle

Hi guys.  I just wanted to check in quick...we have family in for the week from out of state, and I won't have time to deal with this issue until next week.  But I didn't want to leave hanging, those of you who are trying to help.  

 

To clarify...I know for a fact that my neighbors are not using our data.  It would not even be possible, as they are not close enough.  And, my wifi is on a password (not that that would stop everyone, but again...we're dealing with horse and buggy folks here, not tech savvy teens).  

 

I also know for a fact that my kids are not using data without my awareness.  My oldest child is 12, their devices are always in my presence (our home has an open floor concept and the devices are stored in our great room).  I can't stress this enough.  They do not have access to their devices without my knowledge.  I know some of you may think I'm being naive, but you will have to trust me on this one.  

 

I have done the test where the modem is off/unplugged, etc.  No data was used.  I didn't think any would be, because data is not disappearing when I'm not on.  Data is depleting at a faster rate. In other words, if a page takes 5mb to load during the first two weeks...that same page is taking 10mb during the second half of the month.  

 

It IS possible that my own devices (well...basically only my laptop) could be using data when I am not aware, but it doesn't make sense that it would only do this during the second part of the month, every month.  The laptop IS always connected to the Wifi, and the modem/router connection for the laptop is always open.  (Caveat...when the data gets really low at the end of the month, I will often cut the wifi connection to help conserve data).  

 

Next month, I will have to monitor and see how much data is being used when the connection is open, but I am not actively using the laptop.  

 

Still, this doesn't make sense as to why it would run down more data during the second part of the cycle.  

 

So...next week, I will sit down and go over the suggestions offered here, with Glasswire, etc.  Of course, that will be the beginning of a new data cycle, so we'll be starting fresh, and I expect data depletion to be slower.  But perhaps that can be a baseline?  I don't know.  

 

I do want to say thanks to those who have offered to help, offered possible explanations and solutions, etc.  I need to get this figured out.  The data cap is so limited, I can't afford to have data issues like this.  

 

Attached are some screen shots of where we are with usage.  It's a little better this month than last, but I think that's because the slide began later in the month.  

 

Data cap from when I started this post.Data cap from when I started this post.Data cap from after I completed this post.Data cap from after I completed this post.image.png

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Honorary Alumnus

Re: Rapid data drain during second half of data cycle

@bare65 @Sweetpea3829

 

Does anyone read anything that I post?

 

Said by @bare65

Disconnect.PNG

 

Unless directed to remove AC power from the Hughes Modem by one of the support reps, leave the Modem powered up!

 

************ Removing power from the Modem may actually make things more difficult. ************

If you remove AC power from the Modem all of the easy to read Modem logs will be lost. This is data that can be used to support your issue!

 

If you remove AC power from the Modem, any data that was used from the point of the last sync cycle to the time of AC shutdown will not be uploaded and applied to the various usage and history meters until the next power up. That will make it appeare that data was used during the powered off period.

 

To put the Modem in Isolation you need to break all connection paths between your equipment and the Modem.

This entails disconnecting all Ethernet cables from the Modem and disabling all wireless functions, not from your devices, but by turing off the "radios" from within the Modem itself ,,,,, all four channels, one at a time, saving your changes as you disable them.

 

2000 wifi.PNG

 

 

Don't make the job harder than it is, leave the Modem powered up unless there is a good reason to reboot it.

 

Said by @Sweetpea3829

 

"It IS possible that my own devices (well...basically only my laptop) could be using data when I am not aware, but it doesn't make sense that it would only do this during the second part of the month, every month."

 

I did alude to this in my response to you posted above:

> Scheduled tasks <

> Conditional triggers <

 

Some things we haven't touched upon:

 

> Depending upon which updates you have installed on your Win7 computer, there are several that cause the OS to emulate Win10 in respect to sharing "telemetry" with Microsoft <

 

> If you have an Nvidia graphics card on your computer, depending upon which driver you have installed, it too can be sharing you personal data, on a schedule, with Nvidia <

 

> If you have AVG antivirus installed, it also will share your personal data, on a schedule <

 

The list goes on ..... don't look for "blame", look for cause.

 

 

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Honorary Alumnus

Re: Rapid data drain during second half of data cycle

Just to drive home a point: (from my posted topic on data)

 

 

Every bit and byte of data has to run through the modem.

This useage is in three forms ......

>Data used by the modem itself in the form of "Command & Control" otherwise known as Overhead<

>Data used in the re-transmission of your data due to failing equipment<

>Data used by YOUR devices connected to the Modems LAN port<

There are procedures, processes and tools to assess and address each of these.

 

It is important to note that the Modem must remain powered up for the Hughes Loop to remain intact, that all internal Modem logs are retained so the forum Mods are able to use the data to support your issue and that all useage and history meters are updated as of the last modem "sync cycle" with the Gateway.

 

https://community.hughesnet.com/t5/Tech-Support/Understanding-data-usage-data-loss-and-connection-pa...

 

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Associate Professor

Re: Rapid data drain during second half of data cycle

Other things:

1. Just turning the wifi off on devices and putting them in a room won't permanently disconnect them. Wifi on Apple devices will attempt reconnect on it's own at midnight. Could be that others do this as well.

2. Even if you turned the devices off, any automatic updates will initiate once the device/laptop is able, unless automatic updates is disabled. There could literally be GBs of app and OS updates just building up until the device is able to start downloading them, or knows that they are even available.

3. Were the devices/laptops ever scanned for viruses and malware? They could be sending things like zombie spam in the background... You have no idea how prevalent that is, and how many people don't even know it's happening.
Edit: Think I raised this once before and it was never answered.


* Disclaimer: I am a HughesNet customer and not a HughesNet employee. All of my comments are my own and do not necessarily represent HughesNet in any way.