Forum Discussion
The Main Router Discussion Topic
Non-techies, please bear with me on this. I'm starting a discussion about router technology here which may quickly get hard to follow in places. We have a lot of Techies on these forums, and their knowledge is extremely valuable in solving problems. I'm hoping we can concentrate some of that knowledge here on the key role that wireless routers play in overall system performance and maybe provide some useful information that could help you troubleshoot your own connectivity problems.
I know there's a lot of information and discussions spread all across these Forums about routers. And dwelling on routers frequently gets dissed as just some ruse to ignore the "real" problem. But the router is the piece of gear that is the first and only "point of contact" for most customers' iPhones, tablets, laptops, and you name it. Connect a bad $40 router to a good $600 system and you have a bad $600 system.
I was reminded of this today when I visited a customer's home to figure out why they were having problems with their 1-month-old Gen4 system. Ready to have the whole system ripped out, they were.
Frequent disconnects, buffering, slow page loads, you name it, we've read these same symptoms described in these community forums over and over again.
Plugged a LAN cable into the router, a new, Linksys E1200-NP N300 we installed with the system. Took 30 seconds for a page to load. Bypassed the modem and plugged my laptop directly into the modem, and everything came up immediately.
Traded out the Linksys with a Netgear N300 WNR2000100NAS and that did it. Ran three speed tests and came up with consistent 20 Mbps downloads on a 10 Mbps plan. BTW, this is on Beam 19, one of the most crowded beams on HughesNet's Jupiter platform. Everything normal. Customer reassured.
This isn't the first time we've seen this problem, and I can't stress it enough. Here are a couple of cheap $40 routers, one good - one bad, serving up the business end of several hundred dollars of HughesNet gear. This has to be frustrating to HN Tech Support staff and out of their control, so it's no surprise it would be one of the first things they try to eliminate while troubleshooting and so should you.
I should point out the E1200 is on HughesNet's list of approved routers. But that list can't anticipate some approved routers being bad. Just because a router is listed doesn't mean it's working.
So, let's open this up to some more observations and "Best Practices." I'd be interested in hearing from anyone about their experiences with routers, good and bad, and perhaps we can come up with some ways to help others quickly diagnose router problems, instead of simply "blaming the system." Certainly OK to point to other topics and use this one as a central "jumping off" point.
I know there's a lot of information and discussions spread all across these Forums about routers. And dwelling on routers frequently gets dissed as just some ruse to ignore the "real" problem. But the router is the piece of gear that is the first and only "point of contact" for most customers' iPhones, tablets, laptops, and you name it. Connect a bad $40 router to a good $600 system and you have a bad $600 system.
I was reminded of this today when I visited a customer's home to figure out why they were having problems with their 1-month-old Gen4 system. Ready to have the whole system ripped out, they were.
Frequent disconnects, buffering, slow page loads, you name it, we've read these same symptoms described in these community forums over and over again.
Plugged a LAN cable into the router, a new, Linksys E1200-NP N300 we installed with the system. Took 30 seconds for a page to load. Bypassed the modem and plugged my laptop directly into the modem, and everything came up immediately.
Traded out the Linksys with a Netgear N300 WNR2000100NAS and that did it. Ran three speed tests and came up with consistent 20 Mbps downloads on a 10 Mbps plan. BTW, this is on Beam 19, one of the most crowded beams on HughesNet's Jupiter platform. Everything normal. Customer reassured.
This isn't the first time we've seen this problem, and I can't stress it enough. Here are a couple of cheap $40 routers, one good - one bad, serving up the business end of several hundred dollars of HughesNet gear. This has to be frustrating to HN Tech Support staff and out of their control, so it's no surprise it would be one of the first things they try to eliminate while troubleshooting and so should you.
I should point out the E1200 is on HughesNet's list of approved routers. But that list can't anticipate some approved routers being bad. Just because a router is listed doesn't mean it's working.
So, let's open this up to some more observations and "Best Practices." I'd be interested in hearing from anyone about their experiences with routers, good and bad, and perhaps we can come up with some ways to help others quickly diagnose router problems, instead of simply "blaming the system." Certainly OK to point to other topics and use this one as a central "jumping off" point.
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- Yeah, another Power User :)
Most users will never want or need the kind of setups like we use. - Yes, I am, but consider this...
New homes are being built, our nations power grid is slowly being updated to a "Smart Grid" where every home has a smart meter. Many local power companies are giving people network access to these meters. With that, MANY of todays newer electronics from Water Heaters and Thermostats for the HVAC all the way to lighting in a home is networkable. Imagine a home that has the following...
Smart Electrical Meter (One IP)
Smart Fridge (One IP)
Smart Water Heater (One to two IP depending on home size)
Smart HVAC system (One to FIVE IP depending on if you use floor heaters under ceramic tiles)
Smart Lighting System (This is where you could end up with DOZENS of addresses)
Smart Irrigation system (One IP)
Entertainment systems (Overly complicated, can cause network size to explode)
All these devices talk back and forth between one another, deciding whether they should be turned on or off, or the optimal temperture for that current time period. Many new homes are being built around these systems, and many older homes are ever so slowly upgrading to these systems. My home is one such home that is ever so slowly upgrading. In the end this costs a fortune, but is well worth it in the long term. The issue is, when your ISP has control of your router, what's keeping security risks at bay? IPv6 addresses are routable, makes a smart home a VERY easy target for hackers. Even BASIC IP Cameras have shown to be easily hacked. So do I trust my ISP with my router if they can't handle keeping such intruders off the network to begin with? NO. Last thing I want is the kid down the street figuring out how to access my network from the WAN side and turning off my water heater half an hour before I go to shower.
Also, many basic routers can't tolerate more than 10-20 devices at a time, they tend to choke up once all those devices start talking at one time. - The Internet of Everything. http://www.businessinsider.com/internet-of-everything-2015-bi-2014-12
- Maybe we need to start a separate topic, "Should HN Build Wireless Capability into their Modems? My answer is "Yes."
They already have a router built in. It's just a question of whether you want it to supply one private IP to an external router or up to five IPs directly to end devices. - True, but offering Wireless in the modem like I said earlier, should enable us the choice of disabling such functionality. If it's enabled, what's to stop people from breaking into it? I would never notice anyone on the modems Wireless because I have no way of monitoring such a thing, nor seeing how much data is used.
- Not only do you have to make sure the router is putting out the wireless signal but you also have to consider your wireless a]card also, I recently upgraded my old "N" card for a new internal AC wifi cared with bluetooth for only $30 and here you can see the throughput but is overkill for the internet that only running 10-21Mbps
That makes this a timely topic:
The Internet Of Things
http://www.trendmicro.com/us/marketing/newsletter/flod/20150131/security-for-home-users.html
As more and more of this stuff sneaks into our homes we become more dependent upon securing our networks.
- I totally get that and agree you should be "able to disable" :)
I have lots of customers with external wireless routers who have gotten hacked and would have no way of knowing how to monitor their router even if they could. Having wireless, whether external or internal, comes with its own set of risks.
Again, our Geek concerns aren't typical of average HughesNet users. - Not if streaming locally though, it does make a difference. Especially the 5Ghz band.
- You should have an Asus router then Charles, I can monitor each and every device connected and track each devices data usage with just the router
