The Main Router Discussion Topic

[El Dorado Netwo]

Non-techies, please bear with me on this. I'm starting a discussion about router technology here which may quickly get hard to follow in places. We have a lot of Techies on these forums, and their knowledge is extremely valuable in solving problems. I'm hoping we can concentrate some of that knowledge here on the key role that wireless routers play in overall system performance and maybe provide some useful information that could help you troubleshoot your own connectivity problems.

I know there's a lot of information and discussions spread all across these Forums about routers. And dwelling on routers frequently gets dissed as just some ruse to ignore the "real" problem. But the router is the piece of gear that is the first and only "point of contact" for most customers' iPhones, tablets, laptops, and you name it. Connect a bad $40 router to a good $600 system and you have a bad $600 system.

I was reminded of this today when I visited a customer's home to figure out why they were having problems with their 1-month-old Gen4 system. Ready to have the whole system ripped out, they were.

Frequent disconnects, buffering, slow page loads, you name it, we've read these same symptoms described in these community forums over and over again.

Plugged a LAN cable into the router, a new, Linksys E1200-NP N300 we installed with the system. Took 30 seconds for a page to load. Bypassed the modem and plugged my laptop directly into the modem, and everything came up immediately.

Traded out the Linksys with a Netgear N300 WNR2000100NAS and that did it. Ran three speed tests and came up with consistent 20 Mbps downloads on a 10 Mbps plan. BTW, this is on Beam 19, one of the most crowded beams on HughesNet's Jupiter platform. Everything normal. Customer reassured.

This isn't the first time we've seen this problem, and I can't stress it enough. Here are a couple of cheap $40 routers, one good - one bad, serving up the business end of several hundred dollars of HughesNet gear. This has to be frustrating to HN Tech Support staff and out of their control, so it's no surprise it would be one of the first things they try to eliminate while troubleshooting and so should you.

I should point out the E1200 is on HughesNet's list of approved routers. But that list can't anticipate some approved routers being bad. Just because a router is listed doesn't mean it's working.

So, let's open this up to some more observations and "Best Practices." I'd be interested in hearing from anyone about their experiences with routers, good and bad, and perhaps we can come up with some ways to help others quickly diagnose router problems, instead of simply "blaming the system." Certainly OK to point to other topics and use this one as a central "jumping off" point.

[Gwalk900]

Alan,

Funny you should mention the Netgear WNR2000.

That is what I have been using for several years. It has always been rock solid except for some wireless interference issues from my cordless phone until lately.

It now requires a power off reset about twice per week.

My next one will be a Asus.

The ability to track usage by device will be a real plus.

[Gwalk900]

As far as Hughes building in a wireless capability, thanks but no thanks .... the "integrity" of my routers hardware firewall is very important to me and the 1st level of my network security,

[Pawnee County]

I have HN1100 with an Readi Net WRT 300 N DD it was part of the deal for the install so I don't know much about it.  It seems to be working fine I get 12 to 20 Downloads constantly depending on time of day.  I gave my Shop CP to my Brother so I had to build another so I put together an old Dell 2300 1.7  XP home  with only 64 mb SDRAM.  I figured it would run pretty slow but got surprised it cooked along pretty good and streams audio very well. (The basic use for my shop PC is a radio) It is connected to my router with a 70 foot Cat5 cable.  I don't know much about this thing but seem great to me. 

Before I got the router I used a Cat5 Cross cable connected to my main PC and don't see any difference in connection speed.  My new main PC uses wireless and shows only 70 to 85 percent signal.  I am thinking after reading this of making a Cat5 cable and hooking it direct to see if it makes a difference.  The only thing is I do believe in, "if it isn't broke don't fix it".

[BirdDog]

Gary, one of the points being made is that with wireless especially, it can look like it isn't broke but is. I've read lots of posts on other sites about the radio going south in routers but they appear to be fine. Things like not putting out the power they're supposed to.

[Pawnee County]

Sgoshe

That is why I am thinking of running a cable instead of wireless I mean I have over 500 feet of cat5 so it is just a matter of building a cable. If there is a noticeable difference I'll post it.  What got me thinking is the wireless signal is varying quite a bit. I noticed today it has been changing like from 70 to 85 percent.  It isn't going past 85 normally hovers around 81.  The router is like 5feet away from the PC so that has got me wondering where the signal loss is going.

[BirdDog]

Yea, that doesn't sound good. Could be the wireless receive or transmit going bad in the router.

[Pawnee County]

well when a old ancient Dell 2300 with 64 mb RAM seems to connect as well or better than my hyperthreaded Dual core Acer there may be a problem I'll let you know.  Hey Alan thanks for this post.

[El Dorado Netwo]

That would also eliminate the DHCP Lease problem with some routers since the modem would now be serving up the IPs instead of the router. That would be a good thing.

[El Dorado Netwo]

That's because you're a "Power" user 🙂

[C0RR0SIVE]

I am against Hughes building in ANY wireless functionality UNLESS the customer gets complete control over it, such as, being able to disable it entirely.  I rather prefer having my own network equipment and then a basic modem from the ISP...  Letting the ISP handle my network addressing would cause me headaches, then again, I also have 30 or so devices total on my network.

[BirdDog]

Well, you are a geek freak.  🙂

[El Dorado Netwo]

My new main PC uses wireless and shows only 70 to 85 percent signal.

Those signal readings can be deceptive. Many of our customers think that it's an indication of Internet strength or browsing speed but it's not. It only indicates the strength of the wireless signal between the router and the device.

Normally, a decent router will pass data far faster than HN's 15 Mbps, even when the wireless signal is low.

(Please bear with me. I know a lot of you already know this stuff but I'm posting it for the benefit our other "non techie" readers)

[El Dorado Netwo]

Maybe they could build in an option in the control settings to disable wireless, just like disabling web acceleration.

[El Dorado Netwo]

Yeah, another Power User 🙂

Most users will never want or need the kind of setups like we use.

[C0RR0SIVE]

Yes, I am, but consider this...

New homes are being built, our nations power grid is slowly being updated to a "Smart Grid" where every home has a smart meter.  Many local power companies are giving people network access to these meters.  With that, MANY of todays newer electronics from Water Heaters and Thermostats for the HVAC all the way to lighting in a home is networkable.  Imagine a home that has the following...

Smart Electrical Meter (One IP)
Smart Fridge (One IP)
Smart Water Heater (One to two IP depending on home size)
Smart HVAC system (One to FIVE IP depending on if you use floor heaters under ceramic tiles)
Smart Lighting System (This is where you could end up with DOZENS of addresses)
Smart Irrigation system (One IP)
Entertainment systems (Overly complicated, can cause network size to explode)

All these devices talk back and forth between one another, deciding whether they should be turned on or off, or the optimal temperture for that current time period.  Many new homes are being built around these systems, and many older homes are ever so slowly upgrading to these systems.  My home is one such home that is ever so slowly upgrading.  In the end this costs a fortune, but is well worth it in the long term.  The issue is, when your ISP has control of your router, what's keeping security risks at bay?  IPv6 addresses are routable, makes a smart home a VERY easy target for hackers.  Even BASIC IP Cameras have shown to be easily hacked.  So do I trust my ISP with my router if they can't handle keeping such intruders off the network to begin with?  NO.  Last thing I want is the kid down the street figuring out how to access my network from the WAN side and turning off my water heater half an hour before I go to shower.

Also, many basic routers can't tolerate more than 10-20 devices at a time, they tend to choke up once all those devices start talking at one time.

[BirdDog]

The Internet of Everything.  http://www.businessinsider.com/internet-of-everything-2015-bi-2014-12

[El Dorado Netwo]

Maybe we need to start a separate topic, "Should HN Build Wireless Capability into their Modems? My answer is "Yes."

They already have a router built in. It's just a question of whether you want it to supply one private IP to an external router or up to five IPs directly to end devices.

[C0RR0SIVE]

True, but offering Wireless in the modem like I said earlier, should enable us the choice of disabling such functionality.  If it's enabled, what's to stop people from breaking into it?  I would never notice anyone on the modems Wireless because I have no way of monitoring such a thing, nor seeing how much data is used.

[CharlesMcCool]

Not only do you have to make sure the router is putting out the wireless signal but you also have to consider your wireless a]card also, I recently upgraded my old "N" card for a new internal AC wifi cared with bluetooth for only $30 and here you can see the throughput but is overkill for the internet that only running 10-21Mbps 

[Gwalk900]

That makes this a timely topic:

The Internet Of Things

http://www.trendmicro.com/us/marketing/newsletter/flod/20150131/security-for-home-users.html

As more and more of this stuff sneaks into our homes we become more dependent upon securing our networks.

[El Dorado Netwo]

I totally get that and agree you should be "able to disable" 🙂

I have lots of customers with external wireless routers who have gotten hacked and would have no way of knowing how to monitor their router even if they could. Having wireless, whether external or internal, comes with its own set of risks.

Again, our Geek concerns aren't typical of average HughesNet users.