The Main Router Discussion Topic

[El Dorado Netwo]

Non-techies, please bear with me on this. I'm starting a discussion about router technology here which may quickly get hard to follow in places. We have a lot of Techies on these forums, and their knowledge is extremely valuable in solving problems. I'm hoping we can concentrate some of that knowledge here on the key role that wireless routers play in overall system performance and maybe provide some useful information that could help you troubleshoot your own connectivity problems.

I know there's a lot of information and discussions spread all across these Forums about routers. And dwelling on routers frequently gets dissed as just some ruse to ignore the "real" problem. But the router is the piece of gear that is the first and only "point of contact" for most customers' iPhones, tablets, laptops, and you name it. Connect a bad $40 router to a good $600 system and you have a bad $600 system.

I was reminded of this today when I visited a customer's home to figure out why they were having problems with their 1-month-old Gen4 system. Ready to have the whole system ripped out, they were.

Frequent disconnects, buffering, slow page loads, you name it, we've read these same symptoms described in these community forums over and over again.

Plugged a LAN cable into the router, a new, Linksys E1200-NP N300 we installed with the system. Took 30 seconds for a page to load. Bypassed the modem and plugged my laptop directly into the modem, and everything came up immediately.

Traded out the Linksys with a Netgear N300 WNR2000100NAS and that did it. Ran three speed tests and came up with consistent 20 Mbps downloads on a 10 Mbps plan. BTW, this is on Beam 19, one of the most crowded beams on HughesNet's Jupiter platform. Everything normal. Customer reassured.

This isn't the first time we've seen this problem, and I can't stress it enough. Here are a couple of cheap $40 routers, one good - one bad, serving up the business end of several hundred dollars of HughesNet gear. This has to be frustrating to HN Tech Support staff and out of their control, so it's no surprise it would be one of the first things they try to eliminate while troubleshooting and so should you.

I should point out the E1200 is on HughesNet's list of approved routers. But that list can't anticipate some approved routers being bad. Just because a router is listed doesn't mean it's working.

So, let's open this up to some more observations and "Best Practices." I'd be interested in hearing from anyone about their experiences with routers, good and bad, and perhaps we can come up with some ways to help others quickly diagnose router problems, instead of simply "blaming the system." Certainly OK to point to other topics and use this one as a central "jumping off" point.

[CharlesMcCool]

You should have an Asus router then Charles, I can monitor each and every device connected and track each devices data usage with just the router

[BirdDog]

Not if streaming locally though, it does make a difference. Especially the 5Ghz band.

[CharlesMcCool]

Oh yeah it flies locally, lol

[Pawnee County]

No what you mean Alan.

   I have no complaints about speed I get higher than promised the least I have ever saw was 5mb DL but that was around Christmas so I figured it was traffic.  Most of the time I get at least 10mb and in off peak up to 20mb.  If I do change anything it is just curiosity getting the best of me.  I have been a Technician all my life and can't prevent myself from tinkering.  Yes when I was younger I did tear down a wind up alarm clock just to see how it worked.  I did get it  back together but it didn't work correctly lost about 30 minutes per hour.

[C0RR0SIVE]

Charles, as is I can monitor everything I want, from what websites each device visits, to time of day for each site and each byte transfered over my network.  The issue for me comes into play when the modem it self allows wireless access to it, thus bypassing my own LAN. http://i.gyazo.com/03cbba1c3bf0668cbd65d84c99d8815d.png

I just have a SERIOUS issue with providers "providing" a router inside the modem, seen too many homes that had such things, and had serious issues with security.

[C0RR0SIVE]

The problem only exists because they constantly change the IP, I see no purpose in them changing the IP between re-associations, it's a private address space as is...

[Gwalk900]

And there it is !
There is just a "conflict of interest" with an ISP providing anything more than connection services.

Before you could drive a car, you had to take drivers training so you at least understood something of the subject.

Computers ... it used to be that home users only had a single machine and in many cases there was no software firewall built in, no anti virus, no anti malware.

Hacks and infections were all over.
The landscape has changed but user knowledge has not kept pace.

The router is very much missunderstood but is a critical part of everyones network.
Look at the large numbers of complaints here on the forum dealing with data loss. Look how difficult it is to get a novice subscriber to bypass the router even for a few hours for testing and diagnosis.
Look at the number of times we have seen that the data loss was due to a unsecured wireless network.

[CharlesMcCool]

It would be rather hard for Hughes to provide a wireless router or build one into the modem and still make it simple enough for a normal user to be able to add to and maintain a secure setup

[Richard3]

Being a non tech type - A question for all - if the HT 1000/1100 have built in routers is it a workable solution to use a multi-port switch instead of a router? Then add a device for wireless access? Or am I missing something?

[C0RR0SIVE]

You can do it that way, but the wireless access point will use one of the five available addresses, which means you can only have upto 4 more devices on the network.

[BirdDog]

Router ignorance is widespread. Just another case where most people think you just plug it in and it should work. Not the case most times and even the supplied wizard disc can not setup more than the most basic network.

[El Dorado Netwo]

if the HT 1000/1100 have built in routers is it a workable solution to use a multi-port switch instead of a router?

Yes, absolutely.

Also, a wireless Access Point is really nothing more than a wireless switch. It simply  allows the modem to serve up its five available IP addresses directly, wirelessly.

The more I'm thinking about it, I more I like the Access Point option. For most of HN's users, let the modem manage the connections rather than an external wireless router. For most of HN's users, that's all they need - perhaps one to three devices, nothing more. Most of our clients have a laptop, and maybe one or two smart phones - if they even know how to use them to connect wirelessly.

I'm interested in whatever works best for the 95% of average users, not the 5% of power users. We can get excited about the more exotic stuff, but the average user just wants Internet access without having to think about it. They're not about to want to learn how to configure an internal wireless router any more than they would an external wireless router.

[El Dorado Netwo]

Exactly spot on. That's why I'm thinking that, if wireless is integrated into the modem, it eliminates one potential point of failure in the concept of "just plug it in and it should work."

[El Dorado Netwo]

I just have a SERIOUS issue with providers "providing" a router inside the modem, seen too many homes that had such things, and had serious issues with security.

But there is already a router inside the HN modem, and everyone uses it whenever they connect anything to the LAN port.

Security issues are an independent topic, whether we're debating a wireless connection directly to the modem or indirectly through an external router.

[Gwalk900]

The "one size fits all" Hughes supplied approch to networking may very well simplify support issues for a large percentage of novice users but Hughes is nearly famous for having no "adjustability" to its modems. That would surely cause some major issues for many others.

[El Dorado Netwo]

Look at it this way:

A. [Modem]<->[internal router]<->[LAN port}
or
B. [Modem]<->[internal router]<->[LAN port}
                      |
            [Internal AP radio]

If you don't want/need the internal AP radio, don't use it. Just plug into the LAN port as you do now.                 

[C0RR0SIVE]

Technically the "Router" portion is gateway side with the HT1000/1100 units, since the modem just sends all data to a single point, as well as gets DNS and DHCP information from that same point...  In a way it's nothing more than a repeater.  However the old HN9000, that was a basic router.

[El Dorado Netwo]

Add this function and you have the current modem:

192.168.0.1 > Advanced Menu > Wireless > Disable > OK

[El Dorado Netwo]

To help keep the Main Router topic on track, I've created a new topic here: Should HN Build Wireless Capability Into Their Modems?

[Amanda]

Good morning Alan,

As usual, you've always got some great topics! In training and execution, our representatives learn that what HughesNet provides is the internet service. We understand this as similar to being a water company who you call to turn water on when you move into a new home. When you come home and turn on the faucet, the water is brown! Good heavens, the water company has given me dirty water! Just before you pick up the phone and dial - in, were your pipes inspected and/or replaced before you moved in? Turns out, they're dirty! Now who do you call?

What about the perception of data? Should you have (like myself) a toilet that constantly runs, you'll know there is going to be a few extra dollars on your water bill. Who is to blame? The quick thought is to call up the water company (again) and say, why is my bill so high - are you charging me for water I have not used? If you're like me, you'll just shut the water off for that toilet to stop the problem, temporarily at least.

The same goes for your home network. Ensuring that your connections, extra equipment are spick and span will reduce the problems you face. Leaky data? Turn off your devices completely when you are not using them. Sluggish performance? Connect directly to your modem (or water company) and see how clean the connection is.

We hope that as technology advances, so does our perception and knowledge of these systems, not only as an ISP but as a company altogether.

Thank you,
Amanda

[El Dorado Netwo]

Hi Amanda,

You're absolutely right, "Perception" is the key word, and no one feels this more than your customer support staff. In the average customer's perception, it's all one thing - their Internet service. Either it works or it doesn't. If they can't get online or their data is draining away, then it's a problem with their Internet service and you're it.

Most prospective customers I talk to simply assume wireless connectivity is included with the HughesNet system because that's what they're used to getting now when they connect to the Internet through ComCast, AT&T, Verizon, Starbuck's, the local library, etc. It's understandable there's no distinction between "wireless connectivity" and "Internet connectivity."

It's for this reason I've become an evangelist for the one-box solution. It would have to create a better customer experience and make things easier for HughesNet's tech support team.