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Satellite capacity, video streaming and other meanderings

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BirdDog
Assistant Professor

Satellite capacity, video streaming and other meanderings

OK, did some simple math here, please correct me if I made any errors.

 

1. Echostar 19 has been advertised as having "up to" 220 Gbps throughput: http://spacenews.com/atlas-5-launches-echostar-19/

 

2. Netflix says 5 Mbps is needed for HD streaming: https://help.netflix.com/en/node/306

 

3. So, divide 220 Gbps by 5 Mbps and you get the max user capacity at that speed which equals 44,000 customers. 

 

4. In my feeble mind that says if 44,000 customers are trying to stream video at HD, at the same time of night, the satellite throughput is already maxed out.

 

I realise there is compression and other things being used but still, 44,000 or even 50,000 doesn't seem like that many users to send things over the edge when talking a half million users at least on each of  the Echostar 17 & 19 satellites.

 

Please tell me if my math or logic is off. Point I'm trying to make is people who think they are an island streaming at the higher definitions are affecting the entire ocean.

25 REPLIES 25
MarkJFine
Professor

Your math seems right, but let's say for the benefit of doubt that most people aren't doing HD (really a worst case scenario) and there's a 4:1 requirement for HD-to-SD.

That would make the requirement for SD 1.25Mbps: 220,000/1.25 = 176,000 simultaneous streamers.

Now let's split that amongst 95 beams: 176,000/95 = only 1,853 (rounded) needed to max each beam, give or take.

Makes it seem like the initial assumption that a pileup of cord-cutters might be causing the congestion is more and more plausible.

 

Edit: Also seems to make sense that it initially seemed to be worse around Sun/Mon/Thus Night Football and on Sat/Sun day games, so I'd anticipate a pileup of fantasy stuff going on, as well as game streaming.


* Disclaimer: I am a HughesNet customer and not a HughesNet employee. All of my comments are my own and do not necessarily represent HughesNet in any way.
BirdDog
Assistant Professor

Agree, we honestly don't stream that much Netflix, especially during prime time, maybe a couple times a week. Then it is in low def as I said before.

 

I think a lot are trying to do HD at night, then they complain here or the call center when buffering. Satellite and gateways trying to parcel out the bandwidth.

 

Definitely agree the younger cord cutters, we have OTA TV, trying to keep the better half from making us getting satellite TV....lol.

 

PS: My math problem was worse case. Really don't think 44,000 trying to stream HD during prime time is that outrageous. Many grew up thinking they flick a switch and it happens. God forbid they do streaming in SD.

GabeU
Distinguished Professor IV

And this is what those 44,000 are doing to me.  😞  

 

3TqIStEDs.png

 

Granted, I'm still able to browse and Facebook without issue.  

BirdDog
Assistant Professor


@GabeU wrote:

And this is what those 44,000 are doing to me.  😞  

 

3TqIStEDs.png

 

Granted, I'm still able to browse and Facebook without issue.  


Things are actually getting better for me on ES 17 Gen 4 since people are bailing to Gen 5 ES 19. Things still get bad on weekends and holidays or big sports nights.

 

aY8Q9ukP6

GabeU
Distinguished Professor IV

BirdDog,

 

That kinda makes me wish I would have stuck with what I had.  SMH.  

 

My folks, who live right across the street, still have Gen4, though I don't know what their speeds are.  Probably pretty good. 

 

With that said, it's going back up now.  Sub 1Mbps speeds for me are VERY rare.  I've only ever had four sub 1Mbps speed since upgrading to Gen5 at the end of March.  That one was 3rd from the bottom.  

 

And though I don't know about doing so while having the speed I just did, even when it's in the lower, single digit Mbps range I can still normally watch Youtube vids in 480p without issue.  

 

BUz03mlLh.png

BirdDog
Assistant Professor

Gabe, problem is posters here complain about  1-1.5 speed and say they can't stream anything. Maybe true for them but I can. I dunno what the problem is honestly. Even during very low speed times I can stream at low def Netflix. My guess is they are trying to stream in HD or even UHD.

 

Maybe Netflix uses some magic sauce with their video compression but if so it sure works.

 

Or, let's start a conspiracy and say HughesNet is giving low defintion Netflix streamers priority. Oh no I didn't.............lol.

 

Maybe a gateway thing, who knows. We're all out here just guessing in the end.

GabeU
Distinguished Professor IV

BirdDog,

 

Well, I do remember times when I had Gen4 where my speeds were in the in mid, single digit Mbps range, like 5 or 6Mbps, and watching a Youtube video was a challenge.  My Gen4 service was MUCH more temperamental when it came to Youtube vids.  I can't speak for streaming, as I don't do any, at least at this point, but I imagine it's similar.   

 

I think it may be that, when someone is on a beam that isn't very full, they can stream or watch youtube vids even when the speeds are quite low, like the 1-1.5Mbps range, while those on fuller beams may have a difficult time streaming or watching Youtube vids when their overall speed is two or three times that.  

 

One thing I've definitely come to see is that, even if I have around the same speed as someone else at a given time, we may not have the same experience with Youtube vids. 

 

Buffering youtube vids when I had sufficient overall speed, and the issue with the Windows updates taking forever, were two of the reasons for my decision to upgrade to Gen5. 

 

Granted, this is just my experience, and the thought about the beams is just a theory, but it seems plausible.  

 

Edit:  Or, like you suggest, maybe it has to do with the gateways.  Only the gremlins know for sure.  LOL.  

 

BirdDog
Assistant Professor

Wish I had access to the all the engineering data like satellite/beam/gateway throughput by time line..........but then they'd have to kill me. Smiley Wink

GabeU
Distinguished Professor IV

You and me both.  It would be interesting, no doubt.  

maratsade
Distinguished Professor IV

"That kinda makes me wish I would have stuck with what I had.  SMH.  "

 

I'm having lots of issues with speed, but I'm still happy to have gone to Gen 5.  I keep a positive (naive???) outlook: it'll grow out of its growing pains and it'll be just fine.

GabeU
Distinguished Professor IV


@maratsade wrote:

 

I'm having lots of issues with speed, but I'm still happy to have gone to Gen 5.  I keep a positive (naive???) outlook: it'll grow out of its growing pains and it'll be just fine.


I'm hoping just that.  Overall I've been quite happy with Gen5, and for the most part it's been better than Gen4.  I just got a little jealous when I saw BirdDog's speed at that time of night.  I used to see that, even in the highest usage times, but not very much anymore.  With that said, though, I knew that what I was experiencing at the beginning would change as more people got on the satellite, my gateway and my beam.  I just didn't expect it so quickly. 

 

But, like I said, it's still enough for me to do most of what I normally do without any real issue.  A few of the more graphics intensive websites load a bit slower, but if I didn't have to spare the extra few seconds it takes for them to load I'd have more of a problem than just the internet slowing down for a couple of hours. 😛  LOL.       

maratsade
Distinguished Professor IV

Yes, BirdDog is getting too much fast data. Unfair! LOL

 

I've only had moderate speeds since the beginning (17 to 20 Mbps average), and now the speed is slower in general.  I did have a period with higher speeds during the day, sometimes higher than 40 Mbps, but that's no longer the case.

 

I have some issues with Youtube and Netflix if the speed goes under 6 Mbps. I also have noticed that https pages are once again loading very slowly (they hadn't there for a while).  The upside is the company's responsive, more than others from what I've seen in my lurkings.  They're working on this, it'll take time, but things will improve.

maratsade
Distinguished Professor IV

" A few of the more graphics intensive websites load a bit slower, but if I didn't have to spare the extra few seconds it takes for them to load I'd have more of a problem than just the internet slowing down for a couple of hours."

 

As they load, you have time to go get yourself a sandwich. 🙂

BirdDog
Assistant Professor

I'm fine with 10 mbps speed, anything above that is gravy to me. Maybe because I have never had cable internet. Went from dial-up to satellite, thought I was in heaven. Admit downloading a file at 20-30 mbps is nice but not that big of a deal. I do get a lot of 20-30 mbps speed, especially early morning.

 

As far as page loading, I've been on high latency satellite for so long I'm used to it and don't expect anything else. I do notice much quicker page loads the few times I use my cell hot spot but truthfully not that big of a deal to me. So old I remember text painting a line at a time on a monochrome green screen over dialup. Took several seconds for a single line.

 

This here satellite stuff is dang sure awsome if'in ya ask me! Smiley Happy

GabeU
Distinguished Professor IV

I'd actually be pretty good with 10Mbps, as well.  Other than large file downloads taking a bit longer, nothing I do would be impacted in any way with a speed of 10Mbps.  With most web pages, whether I get 47Mbps or 5Mbps, I don't see much difference.  

 

I remember when I first ordered Gen4 I was thinking that I'd be very happy to get 60% of my up to (10Mbps or 15Mbps (can't remember for sure)) speed, and when my first test gave me 20Mbps I was floored.  Nah, something's wrong, it can't be that high.  I then got the same result, over and over.  I was VERY happy.  LOL.  Then it kicked up to 30Mbps about six months later.  Even better!  Too bad it didn't make those darn Windows updates any faster.  They were SOOOOO slow.  Gen5 took care of that problem.  

BirdDog
Assistant Professor

Personally would never upgrade just because of stupid Windows slow updates. I'd use the offline updater first.  http://www.wsusoffline.net/docs/    http://download.wsusoffline.net/

 

Windows 10 is a giant piece of brown excrement  IMO.

GabeU
Distinguished Professor IV

As you know, you're not the only one that feels that way.  For what I use it for Windows 10 is fine, though I do have W8.1 on my notebook becuase it's just too "weak" to run well with Windows 10.  

 

And I just recently discovered an easy way to stop the auto updates in Windows 10 (though you have to have Pro or better) and make it like the Windows updates in my notebook (notify, but don't download until I say so), so that's not an issue anymore.  Now if they'd just stop that "telemetry."  Ugh.  

maratsade
Distinguished Professor IV

"I remember when I first ordered Gen4 I was thinking that I'd be very happy to get 60% of my up to (10Mbps or 15Mbps (can't remember for sure)) speed, and when my first test gave me 20Mbps I was floored.  Nah, something's wrong, it can't be that high.  I then got the same result, over and over.  I was VERY happy.  LOL.  Then it kicked up to 30Mbps about six months later.  "

 

The satellite really likes you, Gabe.  I've never experienced consistent speeds, and of late they've been very slow, sometimes so slow they've affected browsing.  It'll get better, though, I'm sure of it.

GabeU
Distinguished Professor IV


@maratsade wrote:

 

The satellite really likes you, Gabe.  I've never experienced consistent speeds, and of late they've been very slow, sometimes so slow they've affected browsing.  It'll get better, though, I'm sure of it.


Well, it's not liking me as much lately.  As of the last month or so my evening speeds have been dropping considerably, and though my experience isn't as bad as yours, when you're used to it working well, and the speed dropping only somewhat during the peak usage periods, the speed dropping into the low to mid single digits, or lower, is quite noticeable.  Again, most things I use it for still work just fine, but I have noticed as of the last few nights that even Youtube vids are starting to have some hiccups, even when my speeds are in the teens.  

 

I think that, maybe, the Hughes' engineers are just trying to even the system out to be able to take care of those badly affected beams  I know that something changed, as when my speeds dropped during the peak times about a month ago, it was like a switch.  One day there was the normal difference, and the next....BAM!  Over the months it had gone from practically no difference to it gradually dropping into the 30s, then 20s, then even the teens, but this drop was practically instant.  Again, I'm still not that affected when doing most of the things I normally do, but it was interesting, nonetheless.  

 

Peak usage three months ago...

 

9-17.png9-22.png

 

Two months ago...

 

10-18.png10-24.png

 

One month ago...

 

11-16.png11-21.png

 

This month...

 

12-13.png12-18.png12-23.png

 

 

Granted, these are hand picked, and there were tests once in a while that stuck out like a sort thumb, but these are more representative of what's "normally" happening during the given month.  November was a little wild, with it going down, then up, then down, then WAY down.  

maratsade
Distinguished Professor IV

"I'm fine with 10 mbps speed, anything above that is gravy to me."

I'm fine with whatever speeds work for what I need.  I don't need huge speeds, though they help when downloading big files.  Streaming works fine for me with speeds around 7 Mbps.  Simple browsing works at lower speeds, but I do more than just simple browsing.

 

I had pretty good speeds yesterday --today we're back to low speeds, 1.5 Mbps and less.

 

I agree satellite internet is awesome and amazing.