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Re: ""...we are increasing the amount of available capa..." - lighthope1

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Senior

Re: ""...we are increasing the amount of available capa..." - lighthope1

 

 

Ideally, it would be best to have various users on different beams to try out Teams with VPN and Teams without VPN.  I am pretty sure I have been using Teams and Webex both ways, and it seems good both ways but trying under conditions of some congestion would be good to see if this is a factor.  I have been pretty busy today, and with ping times flat lined near minimum for satellite until after 9am and staying insanely low until after 3:30pm, I don't think I have had a fair chance of seeing any congestion yet for a fair test.  It operated great today, but today was unusually fast judging by the numbers I am looking at.

 

MarkJFine does have a good point.  I have noticed that uploading to an FTP with the VPN can be painful, and fast if I kill the VPN.  The reasons he mentioned are spot on.

 

Anyway, the "throttling" of video is through the VDS, and I am pretty confident of the following speculation regarding the HughesNet optimization strategies*:

  • Turning off the VDS (when it stays off ;-) eliminates all evidence of throttling
  • VDS does not appear to throttle productivity sites -- at least the ones I see. 
  • That request they put out asking for user input about work/education related sites they are having trouble with would imply they are intending to give these sites extra priority -- throttling them would be very counter productive to the entire purpose of the effort.  After all, they are not putting all this is place to roll out a bunch of new plans with crazy limits and glowing names, right?

*edit

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Distinguished Professor III

Re: ""...we are increasing the amount of available capa..." - lighthope1

You are again speculating without any hard data -- since HN does not reveal their optimisation strategies, all you are doing is guessing without any real data to support what amounts to basically an opinion. Not criticising you; you can speculate all you want, but it's nothing more than guesswork. 

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Distinguished Professor IV

Re: ""...we are increasing the amount of available capa..." - lighthope1


@MrBuster wrote: 
  • That request they put out asking for user input about work/education related sites they are having trouble with would imply they are intending to give these sites extra priority -- throttling them would be very counter productive to the entire purpose of the effort.  After all, they are not putting all this is place to roll out a bunch of new plans with crazy limits and glowing names, right? 

Or they could be trying to find out which sites are more problematic, and why, in order to make various tweaks to the system for those sites to better work.  


Ryzen 5 3400G | MSI B450M Pro-M2 MAX | 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4 3000 | XPG SX8200 Pro 512GB NVMe | Windows 10 Pro
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Senior

Re: ""...we are increasing the amount of available capa..." - lighthope1


@maratsade wrote:

You are again speculating without any hard data -- since HN does not reveal their optimisation strategies, all you are doing is guessing without any real data to support what amounts to basically an opinion. Not criticising you; you can speculate all you want, but it's nothing more than guesswork. 


Sure speculation and guess work -- I am sorry the wording was not clear.  I do not intend to mislead anyone and I hoped the usage of words like 'appears' would express that.  Some routers can show you detailed data usage per device.

 

So with router logs for every day's activities saved, I can see how much data a device pulled and when it pulled it, how fast it pulled it and the general latency in ms associated with the activity.  If I may be so bold as to offer some speculation, it appears that VDS does limit the amount of data that a single device can pull from obvious recreational video sites, and that there is an increase in latency associated with the operation for some reason which may just be coincidence, but when I see that line go up when a device is pulling data and that the line for data amount looks suspiciously like it is leveled off and fairly constant, I just sort of assume "whew -- good thing that VDS is on!"  

 

If I turn off the VDS, the device appears to pull data faster, and the latency numbers drop back down.  The device also appears to consume more of my data as many streaming sites seem to jump to a higher resolution, but my eyes are pretty bad.  Leaving the VDS off when the crew comes through, even for a brief time, and I usually see several GB disappear to some silly android phone.  Of course I do not mean to imply I am sure of this.  

 

It appears the VDS does what the name implies, as I think GabeU had some Fast.com results that showed results comparing data rates with the VDS on/off, but maybe he can clarify.  Just by glancing at a graph I feel like I have a pretty good idea if my niece or her family is downloading a video from some site (maybe Netflix?), or streaming from someplace, and I just kind-of/sort-of guess at if the VDS is on or not without actually looking.  I do not mean to imply that this is anything other than speculation.

 

Regarding the interpretation of the policy they posted, sure I could be very mistaken -- probably wrong.  I just can't imagine why they would ask users to identify the sites they need improved if they did not want to do something to improve them.  But then I am not very imaginative.

 

 

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Senior

Re: ""...we are increasing the amount of available capa..." - lighthope1


@grizzle wrote:

...

In terms of Teams, Zoom, and media streaming, I have found everything works best when running through a VPN.  Without the VPN, I have had some services, websites, and apps that would take extremely long times to load, or simply timeout.  Upload speeds when trying to share out files were non-existent, and again many times timeout. Once I began using a VPN, speeds seemed to balance out and "work better" - at least on my two computers. Unfortunately all my other home devices cannot run through VPN, so continue to be excessively slow or non-functional due to timeouts.


I gave Team a try without running a VPN just to get an idea if I would see a difference, and I must say Teams was amazing this morning as well.  Of course, this is the morning, and it is generally less busy, but judging by the latency graph there seemed to be a bit more going on this morning.  Yesterday it felt like a ghost town with the latency measures riding near minimum for satellite for me all morning.

 

Some years ago, I saw a website where a knowledgeable fellow shared a formula to calculate bandwidth from point A to point B given a number of values for variables to plug in -- like the latency and size of the TCP window (how much data the other site will push your way without getting an acknowledgement)   Of course, as MarkJFine alluded to, satellite gateways have some complications like compression and some kind of super cache so that they can keep the stream of data moving your way since the lag of going over the satellite can cause really poor performance if the server at the other side is stingy with how much they will send without getting that ack.  As Mark mentioned, with the VPN on, it is pretty hard be able to leverage caching and compression so VPN with satellite is generally regarded as more punishing to your available bandwidth than for non-satellite.

 

Anyway, that fellow advocated for estimating bandwidth and being more sparing in the use of real bandwidth tests in order to conserve bandwidth.  He had some pithy statement -- I probably am getting this wrong -- but it was something like: It is better to estimate the bandwidth than to run a bandwidth test to know the bandwidth -- because when you run a bandwidth test you know your available bandwidth is always 0.  Somehow my paraphrase seems way more verbose and has less impact....

 

Perhaps others will chime in with their results with Teams with VPN and without VPN.  It seemed good either way for me.

 

 

 

 

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Distinguished Professor III

Re: ""...we are increasing the amount of available capa..." - lighthope1

Here's what the support page has:  https://support.hughesnet.com/en/faq/internet/can-i-run-vpn-over-hughesnet

 

Of note: "HughesNet Technical Support does not provide help with configuring or troubleshooting problems associated with VPN clients."

 

Mileage varies widely when it comes to VPNs. They work for some and not at all for others.